| Author | Message | ||
     mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 114 Registered: 4-2002 |
Scollins: The stores under the train station (Cait & Abbey's down to the Blue Moon Diner) are owned by NJ Transit. Lokko Motive is the lease holder (He has a long-term lease). The prior lease-holder had let the property become run-down and NJ Transit had no real incentive to fix up the property sincey they were getting their rent every month. Under a lot of pressure from the board of trustees at that time NJ Transit and the lease-holder agreed to a new lease with Lokko-Motive. The village which was more than anxious to get those properties cleaned up and operating guaranteed a bond for the money that was needed to buy out the old lease-holder. Obviously, there are more details and there is really not enough space here nor do I have every detail of the deal at hand but this is the general picture. Currently we have renovated spaces that with all new stores and with the exception of one of them, they all seem to be very successful. Along with the widening of the sidewalks on Sloane Street, it has become one of the most desirable locations to have a small business, not just in S. Orange, but in the county. If anyone has questions, please email me and I can get them a specific answer or put them in touch with the village attorney who has the full details. | ||
| scollins Citizen Username: Scollins Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2001 |
Mr. Rosner, Sorry. I did not want to get you in hot water with the village attorney. Does the village attorney not have their own email or do you not have the full details of this deal? Be careful because I don't think that not worrying about details that your attorney is taking care of is a valid defense or re-election strategy anymore. I thought you were checking with Steglitz on this one anyway? Why incur unnecessary legal expenses? Based on your responses I am lead to believe that the taxpayers are on the hook for the bond guarantee to a landlord that charges rents so high that Suki's and now the Creamery are history. Not good. I have heard rumors that the landlord with the guarantee is in fact behind on his payments. Please tell me this is not true. It seems to me that the taxpayers are also on the hook for: 1) The cleanup of the contamination on the Shop-Rite site that was not discovered until after the Village used its right of eminent domain to condemn the property, thereby taking it off of the tax role. Does eminent domain excuse an attorney from due diligence? 2) The settlement of easements for use of the Shop-Rite site by surrounding businesses. Does eminent domain exclude the need for a title search? 3) The bonding needed to cover the cost of acquisition of the Shop-Rite site. 4) Any operating cost overruns on the art center. I hope that the downtown re-re-development comes out of its current funk and succeeds because there is a lot of house money riding on it. My house, your house, everybody’s house. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 116 Registered: 4-2002 |
I did not get a chance to talk with Mr. Steglitz, so I sought the information elsewhere. The Village attorney does have email, but it is usually best to send a question/comment to the village administrator. I have forwarded your list to him for official answers. He can ask the village attorny for anything he is unsure of. Really, I was not trying to avoid the details, but did not want to post without having them exactly right and it really would take a lot of space. I will have to find out if the landlord is behind in his payments. My understanding is the the clean-up of the shop-rite site will be paid for by the developer. The taxpayers are on the hook for the bonding of the shop-rite site. It was my hope that this would speed up the process of getting a new market in town. I did not want it to see it become another Beifus site. If they get approval from the planning board to go ahead with the project, I think it will have been worth the cost. However, if this drags on a lot longer.... I will leave that thought unsaid. The attroney fees are budgeted each year. The redevelopment attorney is under contract so asking questions regarding any redevelopment issue is paid for. I am not sure that Suki's left the village because of high rent. Another clothing store moved right in and is doing very well. As for the creamery, I have lots of opinions on why they went out of business and their rent had nothing to do with it. My opinion (not official village position) is that they did not have a business plan to carry them thru the winter months. In the summer months they did not maximize their business potential (running out of ice cream, milk and toppings on a friday nights were common complaints). It was rare to see one of the owners in the store at night, often there were two teenagers who could not move the line. By the way, Blue Moon was sold twice for a profit, Cait & Abby's expanded to another store, the dry cleaners was sold once and Remax is doing very nicely and probably wishes he had more space. Sometimes stores move of go out of business having nothing to do with the location. Just maybe, some businesses close because they were poorly managed or they think moving locations is a solution. The landlord has supposedly rented the store out already. It is not clear yet who will be responsible for the arts center overruns (if any) or shorfalls in the operating expenses. I worry more about the latter being a problem that we need to make sure we have under control. By the way, who said I was in hot water with the village attorney or that I ever discussed any of this with him? I would hope that the attorney is never excused from due dilligence because of eminent domain. And I do agree with you and hope that the redevelopment process starts moving forward again. I have intentionally tried to avoid engaging in any conversation on these posts that would hint at a political agenda. If I wanted to push certain buttons, or criticize others, it would be very easy, but I just don't think this is the proper thread. Re-election strategy? I can't say I have one but if anyone wants the job as my consultant.... Really, I just try to do what I think is best for the village based on knowledge I have and information given to me. I know that sometimes that it does not always seemt that way or work out that way. | ||
| susan1014 Citizen Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2002 |
And don't forget, Suki's didn't go out of business. They moved to Millburn, which I believe they decided would be a better market for their rather upscale offerings. (I rarely found anything their that matched my vision of what children's clothing should cost!) | ||
| woodstock Citizen Username: Woodstock Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2002 |
I wanted to thank everyone for the kind words about my wife Robin's store, Newborn Necessities. Yes, it is the one near Metropolitan Plant on Mt. Pleasant and Pleasant Valley Way. If you go in, tell her you heard about it here. Shes been in business for about three months, and she's still excited about every customer. Actually, I don't think that will ever go away. She's got that kind of personality. To keep on topic, if you do go in, ask her about why she chose West Orange over South Orange. She can explain it better than I ever could. | ||
| teach66 Citizen Username: Teach66 Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2001 |
I just happened upon this thread. I had been looking for a spot myself and spent many days trying to track down someone in SO who could give me some help. I learned that a lot of the property is tied up by one person/company who doesn't want to give any information to anyone. I then did some scouting in Maplewood and spent some time with the owner of Painting the Plates. She told me that she also wanted to start up in SO but had gotten the same run around from the same person (that I did) for almost a year. She then jumped at the chance when something opened up in Maplewood. This is really a shame that good (and funky/artsy) businesses have been turned away over the past several YEARS (!!!) I imagine the person is just holding out for a TON of money!! Oh well... Just a shame... | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2002 |
I can only say that some of the landlords are not helpful to themselves or the village when it comes to attractting new businesses. I will personally tell you I let the person know who gave the prospective business owners a run around in front of other people that we were not happy with their performance. Feel free to email me if you want to discuss opening a business in S. Orange. markrosner@earthlink.net | ||
| teach66 Citizen Username: Teach66 Post Number: 23 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry, it's also too late for me - for now anyway. Thanks for trying - and for your response. | ||
| deadwhitemale Citizen Username: Deadwhitemale Post Number: 267 Registered: 5-2001 |
He's not a scalawag, or notorious. He is Cary Heller. He negotiated quite a deal with the town. I believe one or more entities he controls own 76 S.O. Avenue, but, who knows. DWM | ||
| kathy Citizen Username: Kathy Post Number: 505 Registered: 5-2001 |
Is it Cary Heller that they were talking about? I thought that it was Mr. Toublitz (not sure if I spelled that right). | ||
| Soda Citizen Username: Soda Post Number: 958 Registered: 5-2001  |
Whether or not the landlord of the space is the same Cary Heller's "LocoMotion" corporation which leased the space to Stony Hill Creamery, I don't see much hope of financial success for a new, franchised ice cream shoppe in that same location. The two families that opened Stony Hill Creamery did everything they could to create (from scratch)an upscale, hand-made ice cream parlor for our village. They made delicious product in many traditional and innovative flavors. They hired a terrific group of personable CHS kids to staff the counter. They offered additional items like luscious candies and Dreesen's Donuts, and basically busted their asses to please what (I'm sure) they expected would be appreciative and discriminating South Orange customer base. Instead, they were met with complaints about a delayed start-up, patrons griping about high prices, lousy weather (i.e., cloudy and cool) for much of their first summer, and, in general, a very disappointing lack of support from the community they hoped to serve. So now the store is to become yet another ice cream place, but this time the offering is a pre-packaged "concept" shoppe, peddling a different list of flavors (thought up by some distant franchisor) to the same jaded audience. At what will probably be similar premium prices. In a space with, no doubt, higher monthly space costs. It doesn't look good, folks. In order for this new venture to survive, the rent will have to be lower, or the ice cream will have to be even better (and lower in price) than what we got from Stony Hill, or South Orangeites will have to make a concerted effort to patronize the latest weak attempt to replace Gruning's. Personally, I loved Stony Hill's Coffee Ice Cream Sodas, and I hope the new shoppe is a winner. We'll see... | ||
| Summersby Citizen Username: Summersby Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2002 |
Soda, I hate to say I disagree about the quality of the ice cream. When I go and order Mint Chocolate Chip, I expect to get some chocolate chips in it. Instead, on several occasions I pretty much just got mint ice cream minus the chocolate chips. I was very disappointed in the quality of their ice cream. Im quite excited about a new ice cream shop and would pay premium dollars for premium ice cream. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 428 Registered: 6-2001 |
Summersby posts for me. I tried quite a few times and found the ice-cream mediocre and the service extremely poor, if personable. It's too bad. I'd prefer a decent independent/home made place to a franchise, but I might prefer a good franchise to a lame independent. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 176 Registered: 4-2002 |
Everyone should check out the new ice cream store's web-site. It is really much more than just a pre-packaged franchise store. http://www.coldstonecreamery.com/ There are many reasons a business fails and I posted previously about Stony Hill Creamery and some of their problems. I think that a well managed ice cream store serving a premium product will do very well at that location. | ||
| mayhewdrive Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 159 Registered: 5-2001 |
The way it is described online, it reminds me alot of Maggie Moos, which is on Route 10 West in East Hanover(?) across from Novartis. If so, that is a very good thing. Maggie Moos is always crowded (even in the Winter), even though it it relatively expensive, has very limited seating & you have to drive to get to the small strip mall it's located in. I really hope the NEW Creamery will be a reason for people to come TO South Orange. With the gas money I'll be saving from not driving out to Maggie Moos, hopefully I'll be able to afford THREE mix-ins, instead of just TWO.  | ||
| nwyave Citizen Username: Mesh Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2003 |
Any update on whether this is realy opening? With spring just about here, you would think they would be in fast forward mode to get the creamery open in time for their busy season. Something seems wierd - will this be long term "coming soon" sign? With regard to the SO Fish Market - it sounded like a nice idea - hoping it would be similar to the fish market on Maplewood Ave. However, I see that the A&E Convenience Store (the site of where the fish market is supposed to be) is still open. I thought the Fish Market lease commenced 3/1/03. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 189 Registered: 4-2002 |
I do not know when they expect to open the creamery, but they signed a lease and one would think that once they start paying rent they would want to open as quickly as possible. I will make an inquiry and find out what the story is with both locations. Work has started at the old village kids location and the new cafe there is expected to open on or about May 1st. | ||
| nwyave Citizen Username: Mesh Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2003 |
Beingt that the new ice cream place is still not open, I went to Carvel last night on South Orange Ave. They have done a nice job sprucing it up - bright colors and some new lighting. The sundae (remember Wed is Sunday at Carvel was great. | ||
| mrosner Citizen Username: Mrosner Post Number: 207 Registered: 4-2002 |
They are working at the creamery and are hoping to open in about 6 weeks. | ||
| stefano Citizen Username: Stefano Post Number: 291 Registered: 2-2002  |
Dearest Mark, Will they have Pistachio? |
