| Author | Message | ||
     ASH Citizen Username: Ash Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2003 |
I saw all the helpful answers on potty training, and thought I might run this one by you all (at the risk of turning "Please help" into "Please help parents")...my 7-month-old son is still not sleeping through the night. He's started on solid foods but is still waking every three/four hours at night. Complicating matters is the fact that we're moving in less than a week, and then heading out of town for a couple of weeks after that, so I hesitate to institute any sleep training that requires real consistency. And of course complicating matters even further is the fact that his second top tooth seems to be coming in, so this could all just be a teething issue, because he was sleeping fairly decently before all this teething business started (about two months ago!!) We are going a little crazy. Any experienced mums and dads out there have any hints? | ||
| viva Citizen Username: Viva Post Number: 318 Registered: 5-2001 |
either its the Ferber method or have him sleep with you -- you'll all sleep better. | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 303 Registered: 7-2002 |
I "Ferberized" both of my children relatively early. They both became great sleepers. I know some people are adamantly opposed to the Ferber method. I did it because I used to attend a new mothers' group led by Arlene Eisenberg on the Upper West Side. I had deep respect for her, and she was in favor of it. It worked. My children are older now and none worse for the wear. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1067 Registered: 6-2001 |
ASH, it may be all of the above, and you are right not to try much till after you are settled from the move--which itself may unsettle him, if for no other reason that it unsettles you. Teething can certainly do it. Also, young babies go through unsettled periods--and large developmental shifts--about every three months, so he could also be in the middle of one of those--periods I came to call temporary insanity, which were especially noticable, and taxing, with my first child. What do you do when he wakes? Is he nursing or getting a bottle? Does he sleep with/near you, or in another room? How does he fall asleep? | ||
| Tom Reingold the prissy-pants Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1023 Registered: 1-2003  |
Yeah, buy the Ferber book. Basically, assure him that you're there for him but it's time for sleep. When you go to assure him, keep it brief. Increase the time it takes you to return each time you return. (I'm assuming you're returning because he keeps crying.) Teething at seven months can be a big factor. But there's always something bothering him. He has to learn to comfort himself when little things come up. Also, moving is a big factor, too, so you may not want to institute anything until after things are settled in. Tom Reingold There is nothing | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1068 Registered: 6-2001 |
Not a Ferber fan here. And it definitely depends on the child. The developmental psychologist who ran the mother's group I was in after my first maintained that if your kid Ferberizes easily, he or she probably didn't need it. And, if your kid won't Ferberize easily, it's traumatic for all involved. At the very least you are trying to send a very young child a message about independence that he or she cannot really assimilate. The idea of habit implicit in Ferber makes sense, (that if the baby gets habituated to certain parental interventions, habit more than need may keep them going) but there are gentler ways to modify the habits--and in some cases, the behavior is need driven, not habit, and then the needs should be addressed. | ||
| redY67 Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 170 Registered: 2-2003 |
I ferberized both my children. It definitely is easier the younger they are. My son I ferberized at 2 months and he slept great after that. I had to re-ferberize him at 2years, and that was heartbreaking. It is very tough, but I had two different pediatricians recommend doing this technique. | ||
| ASH Citizen Username: Ash Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2003 |
Right now our son sleeps in the "room" next to us in our teeny NYC railroad apartment, between our bedroom and the kitchen, with no door between his room and the kitchen. (we're so glad we're moving!). When he wakes up I usually breastfeed him. And I do let him cry a little bit at these nighttime wakings, but no longer than five minutes (just started doing this). I also just started gradually shortening the feeding time, which Ferber recommends. (going from 8 min per breast to 7 min per breast etc etc). This kind of stuff I feel I can do until we are settled in, and then we can institute the full program...we've tried having him sleep with us but he just wakes up more often! In our new place he'll have his own room a tiny bit down the hall from us, and it will certainly be quieter and darker for him. I'm hoping this will make a difference. We had been having a terrible time getting him to fall asleep at night but this has recently improved...he sits quietly and gradually drops off (on our bed unfortunately rather than his crib but we'll work on this--at least he is falling asleep on his own). So I do feel things are improving...and he is a fairly decent napper... How long does the Ferber program take to work? From what I understand it is really important to be consistent...is this right? I have tried letting him cry a bit when putting him to bed in the past and he just gets incredibly worked up, so that concerns me a bit... | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1069 Registered: 6-2001 |
I'd say the getting worked up is telling you something (and even Ferber semi recanted in a New Yorker article a while ago for some such cases.) My older kid got worked up enough to puke the one or two times I (and once, grandma trying to be helpful) pushed it. My second kid practically screamed "go away and leave me alone so I can sleep" and would sometimes fuss for all of a minute or two before conking out. You need to figure out what you've got--where on the spectrum your baby lies. One thing--probably once you are settled-is to get him going to sleep in his own bed. If he likes yours, you might lie him on a used pillowcase (it smells like you and your bed). That is a habit thing that might be affecting his sleep--i.e. he falls asleep in one place and wakes up in another--which is startling (and would be for us too!). Babies will wake very briefly a few times during the night--it helps if they are in the same place/situation as when they fell asleep. This is the "danger" of pacifiers/bottles/nursing/cuddling to fall asleep, since if they wake and want it back and don't have it, they will also often cry. Better to get them very relaxed and drowsy and let them drop off by themselves (even if you are sitting nearby for a minute). | ||
| ASH Citizen Username: Ash Post Number: 60 Registered: 8-2003 |
Thank you so much for the hints, jfburch. Do you remember when that New Yorker article ran? I would love to read it. We actually just broke a rocking-to-sleep addiction...more mine than his, since it worked so quickly, but he would indeed wake up startled and screaming! And he was able to fall asleep on his own in his crib before this latest rough patch so I'm hoping it won't be too tough to transition..the pillowcase is a good idea. And thanks to all for the info--I think I will probably end up doing some sort of semi-Ferber thing once we are settled in. But who knows, maybe the lovely quiet and clean air of Maplewood will work some sort of magic... | ||
| akb Citizen Username: Akb Post Number: 142 Registered: 12-2001 |
We coslept at first and our oldest daughter slept through the night early and easily. This all changed after an extended trip when she was almost 2, after which she started spending more and more time getting up. We ferberized at the suggestion of our ped. It was heartbreaking because she was so verbal but it worked very quickly (3 or 4 nights). Honestly, if I were you, I'd wait now until you have moved and will be in your new house for 2 weeks in a row. It will be all about consistency. Teething, stress (moving or otherwise-related), travel ... all of these upset sleep patterns. No point in fighting the inevitable. Good luck! | ||
| ASH Citizen Username: Ash Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2003 |
You're right akb...I know that we (or at least I) wouldn't enjoy our trip if we were worrying about keeping him on a strict schedule, and this would also mean less time for him to spend with his grandparents and aunts and uncles, who we'll be visiting. | ||
| cody Citizen Username: Cody Post Number: 432 Registered: 5-2001 |
I've also heard that "white noise" machines can help a child to sleep - particularly one that sounds like a heartbeat. It is said to work very well on young infants. Can't speak empirically - my kids are in high school and beyond now and the problem is getting them out of bed, not falling asleep! | ||
| redY67 Citizen Username: Redy67 Post Number: 172 Registered: 2-2003 |
ASH I think it definitley depends on the child. My son took two days when he was two months old to be ferberized. And it changed my life. He would ONLY sleep when he was in my arms. So after two months of not sleeping, I was pulling my hair out. I started by letting him scream five minutes, going in and rubbing his belly, then ten minutes, then fifteen etc. Usually it only took fifteen minutes of him crying. When he started teething, I did the same thing and he was fine. When my daughter was born, my son was two. For some reason he started to freak out about sleeping, and we had to re-ferberize. This took a week, and was horrible. He would get out of bed, and scream near the door until he fell asleep. It sometimes was for an hour. It really broke my heart, but the doctor told me it was the best thing for him. By the end of the week he stopped. We just let him cry it out solid with no going in. I think you just have to see how your child is, and play it by ear, but be CONSITENT. It makes a differentc. My girlfriend tried it with her daughter, but was never consitent, and it didn't work. Her daughter is now 3 and still gets up four to five times in the middle of the night. Good luck! | ||
| shoshannah Citizen Username: Shoshannah Post Number: 304 Registered: 7-2002 |
I would say there is no nutritional need to feed a seven-month-old in the middle of the night if he is healthy and eating solid food. That right there may be the crux of the problem. Before starting the Ferber routine, why don't you try soothing the baby without feeding him -- and if possible, without taking him out of the crib? Once he gets it that the kitchen is closed, he may decide that sleeping through the night's a better deal. | ||
| aneighbor Citizen Username: Aneighbor Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2001 |
I only have one child to back up my experience but my daughter had been sleeping through the night at about 3 months then when she hit 4 months she was up every 4 hours. I asked her pediatrician his advice, thinking maybe she needed to start on solids. He suggested letting her cry it out for fifteen minutes and most likely she'll fall back to sleep on her own. He said to give it a week and see how she does. We did it and after 3 nights never heard from her again. She'll usually go to sleep at 8PM and wake up at 7AM. It was hard at first letting her cry but the fact that she always woke up in the morning happy helped us to see that she was really OK. Good Luck. PS we have friends he always had a hard time letting their child cry it out. Their child is now 2 years old and still up every night. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1070 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think the key thing is to know and listen to your child. Some kids need to burn off some energy before they can relax to sleep, and crying a bit can do that. Some are simply protesting that they'd rather have you there and will quit if they are sleepy enough and not overtired. These kids will "ferberize easily". Some kids are really distressed by the parent's, especially mom's absence and need more help and time making the transition. They won't ferberize easily, if at all. In the New Yorker article--about 2 years ago, ASH (I'll see if I can get a date) Ferber was responding to cases like that--kids crying for hours on end and desperate parents trying to make it work. That was never his intention or recommendation, he said. Kids who are teething or otherwise really uncomfortable or upset about something need to be comforted and reassured, not left to cry it out. The rule of thumb my old mother's group leader gave on how long it's okay to let a baby cry it out was that "if it feels too long, it probably is too long." And age matters--infants are often harder to read, and generally for them needs and wants amount to the same thing. It's a different issue with most toddlers and preschoolers, but except for short lived protest crying, I am not comfortable walking away from a kid in distress asking for comfort. It takes a little longer to make the transition and help them develop good sleep habits, but it's certainly do-able--and no matter what, there will be times when something's going on and they wake and need you--she says coming off a couple of sleep deprived weeks when both of her kids were up once or more every night--the toddler teething and miserable with a cold and the 4 year old waking from vivid dreams. Solutions: a soft light on all night long for the 4 year old, 1 night and 1 early morning with the toddler in bed with us when nothing else would soothe, and thereafter earplugs for us when it became clear that the toddler was now fussing in her sleep and not really needing us. | ||
| viva Citizen Username: Viva Post Number: 319 Registered: 5-2001 |
I did not use Ferber on my oldest child because I was a wuss. He did not sleep through the night until he was 2.5. Several years later, I used the Ferber method on my second child. I was still a wuss, but a more determined one. It was very painful for me, but it worked in 3 or 4 nights. We all survived, probably for the better. Plus, you have the rest of your life to show your kids that you are always there for them. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1071 Registered: 6-2001 |
The New Yorker article may be November 8, 1999, by John Seabrook on co-sleeping, though I thought there was something more recent just on Ferber. (Also, crying it out is a last resort Ferber strategy, so if you want to do it, take a look at the whole book.) | ||
| pfmfmfaf Citizen Username: Pfmfmfaf Post Number: 32 Registered: 12-2002 |
My two kids were completely different when it came to sleeping through the night. I stopped nighttime feeds around 9-10 months for both, but that didn't completely do the trick. After using the Ferber technique for two nights on my oldest (when he was 10 months), he became an incredible sleeper ever since (he's 10 now). My youngest, well, she just cried and cried, and I didn't have the heart to do it. She's just a different personality. Bottom line--do what feels right to you. |
