| Author | Message | ||
     Tom Reingold the prissy-pants Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1187 Registered: 1-2003  |
I think respect is always called for, even when people are behaving inappropriately. Trading rudeness for rudeness doesn't make anyone happy, nor does it encourage anyone to straighten up. Tom Reingold There is nothing | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 751 Registered: 10-2001 |
From Cynicalgirl's 6:07 am post: "Yes, it affected me that their behavior and noise and swearing (not just the odd "damn) scared my kid." | ||
| xavier67 Citizen Username: Xavier67 Post Number: 308 Registered: 6-2002 |
Ashear, do you remember when we were at Stuy how we would block traffic on 15th Street, play ball and hackysack, throw our bookbags everywhere, both lean and sit on parked cars, etc? Maybe even curse (heaven forbid)? Do you remember how pissed off the folks who lived on the block or parked their cars on the block were? Did you have any sense that what we were doing was somewhat wrong? Call me a thug, but I surely didn't. | ||
| mem aka "toots" Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 2327 Registered: 5-2001  |
xavier67/ashear, Did you ever say f*ck you white b*tch right into the driver's side window in a lone woman's face while your friends blocked her car? I didn't think so. | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 752 Registered: 10-2001 |
Ashear and xavier - that stuff may fly in the city and I'd venture that most of us moved out of the city to get away from stuff like that, but we should not permit it to happen here. When I was in HS we did some pretty stupid things, lack of respect towards adults and police in particular was not one of them. Maybe in a small town where everyone knows everyone else its tougher to get away with. Most all the kids know who the adults are. It is far easier to be disrespectful of anonymous passersby. | ||
| Tom Reingold the prissy-pants Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1188 Registered: 1-2003 |
This discussion is why it's good we have MOL and especially why it's good we live in a small town. We can say that this behavior is not acceptable. I was rowdy, too, but that doesn't make it acceptable. Tom Reingold There is nothing | ||
| jet Citizen Username: Jet Post Number: 314 Registered: 7-2001 |
Mem, my guess is that , if you had this kid arrested , his mother would say the same thing to you. | ||
| mem aka "toots" Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 2328 Registered: 5-2001 |
jet, I wouldn't bother having the kid arrested because it doesn't scare me and I have gotten very used this kind of behavior. Oh well. | ||
| jet Citizen Username: Jet Post Number: 315 Registered: 7-2001 |
Good for you Mem. | ||
| ashear Citizen Username: Ashear Post Number: 810 Registered: 5-2001 |
I guess it just seems to me that there is a difference between kids being annoying, which we probably were as kids (though I was more a hang out in Stuy park kind of guy) and being scary. I can see where what was described could be annoying. What I am having trouble with is what was scary. (Others who were there at the same time have posted they did not find it so.) Every time I go into town on a warm weekend night there are groups of kids all over. Some block the sidewalk and some make noise. Where are the complaints about them. I guess I really want the difference to be something other than the fact that those kids are mostly white but I am starting to doubt it. | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 753 Registered: 10-2001 |
"Mem, my guess is that , if you had this kid arrested , his mother would say the same thing to you." Therein lies part of the problem. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 191 Registered: 9-2003  |
It may be because I am an over 40 white woman, with a kid, that I am scared by a loud sprawling crowd of at least 50 kids, yelling, some swearing in some pretty out there ways, and not particularly responding to the cop. It may also be that some were thuggy looking. It was the unruly, lawlessness of it. If I were the person who owned the brick house opposite MMS, I would've been out there telling them to get off my yard. Which some were all over, up to the windows. If you are either younger, or male, or not out with your kid you may not find the situation I described as threatening. But given the above, and given recent incidents, yes I found it threatening. It was more than annoying. | ||
| xavier67 Citizen Username: Xavier67 Post Number: 309 Registered: 6-2002 |
"Did you ever say f*ck you white b*tch right into the driver's side window in a lone woman's face while your friends blocked her car? " What happened to you was deplorable...but I thought we were talking about what happened in front of the library? "that stuff may fly in the city and I'd venture that most of us moved out of the city to get away from stuff like that, but we should not permit it to happen here." Hello??? We live in Maplewood, a real-life urban suburban town, not in Pleasantville, USA. And I moved to Maplewood for many reasons, but getting "away from stuff like that" was not one of them. If it were, I would have moved elsewhere. | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1107 Registered: 6-2001 |
The level of threat is in the eye of the beholder. And the level of rudeness does depend somewhat on the interaction. Several posters found that situation less threatening; others have posted here and elsewhere about speaking to out of line kids and getting reasonable to good responses. Maybe the "hapless cop" had a thick skin and decided to chose his battles--with the end goal of dispersing the kids as efficiently and calmly as possible. I do think that overgeneralizing and hypothesizing about the kids and their parents and venting is the least useful approach if you really want to address or solve the problem. Most of us can lay claim to some bad behavior. Most of us were punished when we got caught, because our parents did care and pay attention. Most of us probably got away with some stuff, including disrespecting adults. Why assume these kids/parents are different? You want kids to observe and respect community values? Treat them as part of the community as you hold them to standards. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 539 Registered: 3-2002 |
Hello?? It wasn't like that before you moved here. If fact, not until recently. Let's stop it before it turns into "stuy". | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 754 Registered: 10-2001 |
Just because you think that it is acceptable behavior to be disrespectful by cursing like a sailor doesn't mean that the rest of us have to. | ||
| mem aka "toots" Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 2330 Registered: 5-2001 |
xavier67, What happened to myself and Cynicalgirl seemed similar to me, they may have even been the same kids, it only happened several blocks apart, and the last time this happened to me was about only three weeks ago. Sorry if I confused you by making this leap. However, last week while driving down Prospect after crossing Springfield Ave., a huge mob of kids surrounded my car and started banging on my hood, they said f*ck you but not white b*tch. They did call me the "C" word. This happened at 8:00 pm and I was with a friend, so it was a little dissimilar to Cynicalgirls' experience in front of the library, that's why I didn't bring it up til now, to use as a comparison. I hope this is clear to you? | ||
| jfburch Citizen Username: Jfburch Post Number: 1108 Registered: 6-2001 |
Nobody's arguing that it's acceptable. That doesn't mean it's an arrestable offense--or that such a response--or rampant hostility and stereotyping will lead to better behavior and more respect from teens. | ||
| mtierney Citizen Username: Mtierney Post Number: 435 Registered: 3-2001 |
An interesting perspective on this might come from the town's merchants. Are the kids spending money (movies+pizza excepted)? Do the crowds intimidate adults and families with young kids from strolling the avenue after dinner? Lets here it from the merchants, too. If teens scratched the hood of your car or dented it, would you feel angry? How would the cost and inconvenience of having the vehicle repaired make you feel? The people in the house referred to might now have some landscaping repairs to make. Should they be angry? Kids learn respect for property and others mostly right at home. Do parents speak about elected officials, government, church, our country in a manner within earshot of their kids which might give them reason not to respect authority figures? Do the kids believe that their parents will defend their actions before cops and teachers even if their actions are wrong? Are the parents duped or just lazy? As a seasoned citizen, I will say that hordes of kids of any color will intimidate me while I shop or go to the library at the wrong time. The teens seem oblivious of others. I have never understood why the middle school could not provide library hours for the many kids who apparently use the library for afterschool care. Their behavior might improve. | ||
| sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 755 Registered: 10-2001 |
"You want kids to observe and respect community values? Treat them as part of the community as you hold them to standards." I not only want them to but I expect them to observe and respect community values. However, taking the sitting on the car example - which should come first? Shouldn't that come from the parents? I agree that its not an arrestable offense, however, respect starts in the home. As you indicated everyone has done their fair share of "dumb" things in the past. However, I can not remember ever being disrespectul of other adults when I was a teen. |
