| Author | Message | ||
     Carl Thompson Citizen Username: Topcat Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2003  |
I think we could combine Straw’s, Joan’s and Kenney’s ideas into a powerful deterrent to crime in the park. It would be year-round men’s night softball. This would provide organized activities after dark, a civilian patrol active within the park, something to ease Straw’s boredom, and, of course, lots of heavy bats. I would further suggest a special municipal ordinance to allow this group to consume alcoholic beverages in the park. So, we would play a little ball, drink a few beers, do some male bonding, and when the trouble started, crack a few heads. Oh sure, in the winter we’d have to put on our long underwear and bring a bottle of whiskey instead of a case of beer, but that’s all in the details. Probably we’d never need to actually whack anyone with the bats because no teenagers, gang members included, would want to be seen near a bunch of middle-aged guys playing sports. Would the town’s Rec. Dept. sponsor this? Hey, Roger… | ||
| Tom Reingold the prissy-pants Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1271 Registered: 1-2003  |
If I may speak for 1-2many, I don't think she was saying she knew what has gone on. In fact, that was her point, that others are talking as if they knew how much crime occurs, when, in fact, we don't know. We're making proposals to react to an unknown quantity of crime. Better to find out first and propose solutions second. Tom Reingold There is nothing | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 659 Registered: 6-2002 |
I have been made aware of information that seems to confirm my initial theory: this was not an innocent victim incident. the attacker(s) were probably known to the victim which is what the police have said as well. I was also told that the kid that got beat up was having trouble with these kids at school and the kids who beat him up "found" him in the park. finally, I am told if you knew this kid, you would not be surprised. so my initial theory - that there is very little random crime, thus this is probably not random - has been, apparently, confirmed. no one wants to believe their kids make any trouble and might not be blameless. but why not? kids are human, too, and they pick fights and sometimes they get beat up. (gee, kind of like on this board.) Callahan - obviously you pose a far-ranging query. I would be interested in any research YOU may have that suggests differently from what I am saying. For my information, it is culled from many articles, books, websites, etc. this includes reading from this site, where sportsnut has posted links to NJ crime statistics information; you can look at that. also, the NJ State POlice website, I believe has some of this information. any google search on crime in NJ will give you concrete information on how crime in this state has fallen and is falling substantially. the bottom line is that what remaining crime there is gets GREAT press; this is why we're left the opposite perception of what is true, that crime actually keeps going decreasing. if I have time this weekend, I will try to collect some of my information. in the meantime, I invite you to post information of your own. | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 660 Registered: 6-2002 |
but ps TomR you're right, I DIDN'T know when I made the earlier posts, and you are EXACTLY right that my point is don't panic until we have the real information, and know whether this is a random and/or isolated incident. that is all. | ||
| Tom Reingold the prissy-pants Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1272 Registered: 1-2003 |
And the reason I don't want to fear imagined crime levels is that I want to warn my daughters about real dangers but not about fake ones. If it's unsafe to walk on the streets at night, I'll tell them. (Actually they don't do it currently.) If it's unsafe to walk alone in the day, that's another matter. It would be big news! They currently walk to school. What should I tell them to watch out for? A lot of that depends on the level of crime. And 1-2many's distinction between random crime and crimes against acquaintances is a very, very important one. Telling my daughters to watch out for strangers who might attack them is a crime itself, if the danger isn't realistically large. Tom Reingold There is nothing | ||
| marie Citizen Username: Marie Post Number: 937 Registered: 6-2001 |
12many, "I was also told that the kid that got beat up was having trouble with these kids at school and the kids who beat him up "found" him in the park. finally, I am told if you knew this kid, you would not be surprised." You're not blaming the victim are you? Who gave you this information? | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 662 Registered: 6-2002 |
I am not blaming him, nor calling him a victim. where two people get in a fight, and one wins, is the loser a "victim"? because this may be what happened here. I am not saying he "deserved" it at all, but only that this MAY NOT BE random or anonymous, and there is more to this story than will be publicly shared. kids get beat up. its part of growing up. where that beating up is part of an ongoing issue between kids... that's an important factor to recognize, especially to diffuse untrue gang scares. as for the kids that are fighting? it's my personal belief, from my own first-hand experience, that kids that are getting in more trouble are usually acting out other problems. we should focus our attention on those, on why certain kids find themselves in harm's way more than others - THERE'S the real issue, and one that CAN be resolved, not some anonymous and untrue gang scare. | ||
| Tom Reingold the prissy-pants Citizen Username: Noglider Post Number: 1273 Registered: 1-2003 |
In other words, the fact that the assault might have been a continuation of some earlier disagreement means I do not have to warn my kids that any random person on the street might attack them at any moment. So, Marie, it means that yes, bad things are happening, but it's important to note which bad things they are. Tom Reingold There is nothing | ||
| bobk Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 3982 Registered: 5-2001 |
Personally I think this whole subject has gotten out of hand. Kids have been hangin' in Memorial Park ever since we have lived here (nearly 25 years), drinking, smoking (not only cigarettes), necking and from time to time fighting. When all is said and done the statistics indicate Maplewood is a very safe community. No one is going to argue that our town has changed and I am certainly not going to argue that there is not a potential for gang activity. However, for the most part all the kids, black, white and other, are much too cool (at least in their own minds) to start attacking each other just for the heck of it. I know there have been some incidents, especially at sporting events, that cause some concern. However, let's not panic. Turning the schools into mini-Attica's isn't called for. | ||
| marie Citizen Username: Marie Post Number: 938 Registered: 6-2001 |
This conversation is beginning to remind me of the "He slipped on an ice cream cone" thread. Remember the kid who had his nose busted by a group of "youths" in Maplewood Village? There are those of you out there who probably still believe that story. That was a gang related attack. 12many, You ARE placing blame on a VICTIM. A 13 year old child who was viciously assaulted in an UNPROVOKED attack. This was not a "fight between two people." It was an assault by 10 or so individuals, on ONE individual. The police are investigating it as a possible gang crime. FACT. If you have some pertinent facts about this please post them. Your personal anecdotal is irrelevant. I wonder if you have the nerve to call this child's mother ( I know him and his mother ) and explain to her, how it is that he was not victimized. I'm sure she'd be interested in your advice so as to help prevent any future attacks on her child. Were you aware that a gang house was recently closed in Maplewood? The gang activity involved Dr ug dealing and prostitution? CHS students were involved. Several cars were stolen from CHS in the past several weeks - gang related auto car theft. Teachers at CHS ask security guards to walk them to their cars on days when they have heard gang initiations are going to take place after school. Seven known gang members have been identifed in Maplewood - those are the IDENTIFIED members. Three hundred or so people attended the last NAG meeting to hear gang experts speak about gang encroachment in Maplewood. For those of you still in denial, I suggest you attend the next NAG meeting and ask all of these questions for yourself. MMS parents attend the Coffee and Conversation at MMS and speak with the Peace Officers. Then sign up to become block watch captains and after school volunteers. Tutor in the after school tutoring program. Offer your services to NAG in the way of building a website, or donating a Xerox machine for copying handouts. Offer to walk door to door with invitations to attend NAG meetings. By all means be a part of the solution to the problem. Dont, however continue to be part of the problem by denying that gang related crime is a real and growing threat in Maplewood/SO. | ||
| 1-2many Citizen Username: Wbg69 Post Number: 663 Registered: 6-2002 |
It is my information that the police believe this is NOT gang related. the mother, of course, would know what they say. are you saying she believes it's gang-related? because that's not what I understand. I think the community involvement you describe all sounds to the good. if we have a problem, by all means, this sounds like the right path. but let's not mistake fear of crime, for crime. let's not raise the level of panic and hysteria. here are some stats on how crime has FALLEN over the last 20 years, dramatically, without even adjusting for increased population (which would result in even more dramatic decreases). http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~vtandon/CIH%20Final%20Project.html (this one's a summary paper, with links and descriptions of where summarized info is from) http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/local/6665690.htm (news story summarizing and commenting on the data) http://www.injersey.com/app/crime/story/1,2171,94911,00.html (same) http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/njcrimn.htm (more data) we should take care not to confuse anecdotes with data. we should be aware that, say, random crime occurs once every 5,000 kids. while it is horrible for that one kid, and we absolutely should promote prevention and treatment, focusing on that one kid distorts perspective. | ||
| Copihue Citizen Username: Cop Post Number: 158 Registered: 10-2003  |
Several years ago one of the dog walkers on Memorial Park, I don't remember who, told me that her husband had been robbed at gunpoint by the bridge on Memorial Park, the footbridge surrounded by heavy shrubbery near the Library. He was walking home from the train in the evening, but I don't remember exactly what time. It was a while ago. I remember her telling me that the police had told her that this was not uncommon at Christmas time. I stopped walking at night on Memorial Park after that. This is a bit of a thread drift, since this was done by adults instead of kids. Can anyone comment on this? Callahan, is it true that it happens more frequently at Christmas? how frequent is normal and how frequent is during Christmas? In other words, how dangerous is Memorial Park after dark? Pack your own chute. | ||
| Duncan Citizen Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 1250 Registered: 12-2001  |
OH MY GOD. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" Wayne Gretzky | ||
| Arnomation Citizen Username: Arnomation Post Number: 83 Registered: 7-2003  |
I'm just glad I live over by the good park | ||
| NRL Citizen Username: Nrl Post Number: 357 Registered: 8-2003 |
I am hearing a lot more stories about this kind of stuff and its not only on MOL. "best places to live"? I am starting to think not so. It seems MW has been able to keep many of its dirty little secrets covered for some time. As a new resident, I grow more concerned with the more I hear. | ||
| marie Citizen Username: Marie Post Number: 940 Registered: 6-2001 |
Indictments, Defendant List & Participating Agencies>> August 14, 2003 65 ALLEGED "CHAMPAGNE POSSE" GANG MEMBERS ARRESTED OR INDICTED AS PART OF SWEEPING INVESTIGATION TARGETING TRAFFICKING AND GANG ACTIVITY IN ESSEX COUNTY AREA Statewide Law Enforcement Initiative Focuses Resources On Gang Activity & Gang-Related Crime In Targeted New Jersey Cities State Police Street Gang Unit Spearheads "Operation Moet" IRVINGTON - Attorney General Peter C. Harvey and Colonel Joseph R. Fuentes, Superintendent, New Jersey State Police, today announced the arrest and/or indictment of 65 alleged members of a violent and dangerous street gang operating in the Essex County metropolitan area on a wide-ranging list of criminal charges including leader of narcotics trafficking network, money laundering and criminal conspiracy. According to Attorney General Harvey, the arrests and indictments are the result of an extensive, nine-month, multi-law enforcement agency investigation dubbed "Operation Moet" which was coordinated by the New Jersey State Police. The joint law enforcement investigation targeted the leadership hierarchy and membership of the "Champagne Posse," which is alleged to be one of the largest and most organized criminal street gangs operating in the Essex County area. It is also alleged that the "Champagne Posse" controls most of the illegal trade in North Jersey-Essex County. The investigation successfully tracked and documented alleged "Champagne Posse" gang activity in Essex, Union and Middlesex counties, New York City, PA, and Jamaica. The investigation remains active and ongoing. "Today's indictments send a loud and clear message to gang members and the public that the full weight of New Jersey's law enforcement community has been dispatched to eliminate gangs and gang activity," Attorney General Harvey said. "The Attorney General's Office, the New Jersey State Police, the Division of Criminal Justice, the federal Enforcement Administration, and the resources of numerous other federal, state, county and local law enforcement agencies have stepped-up their efforts and will, through joint partnerships, infiltrate, investigate and prosecute gang members and gang-related activity no matter where it occurs." "Through efforts such as the Essex County Anti-Crime Partnership, we will wrest control of New Jersey's urban areas from the criminals and give them back to the people," said Colonel Fuentes. "With the help of New Jersey's citizens, gang will be eradicated one neighborhood, one block and one street corner at a time." According to Superintendent Fuentes, the undercover aspect of the investigation culminated on Aug. 11 with the arrest of 44 alleged leaders and members of the "Champagne Posse." Additional arrests are currently underway. The defendants unable to post bail are being held in the Essex County Jail. The investigation determined that the cartel operates as a well-organized "business" under the direction of an identified leader responsible for coordinating criminal activities and the overall operation of the criminal organization. The cartel maintains a chain of command and operating procedures designed to direct criminal activities for profit. Throughout the course of the investigation, numerous search warrants were executed which resulted in the confiscation of 14 prohibited weapons and more than 220 pounds of . Additionally, over $65,000 in cash and seven luxury automobiles valued at more than $400,000 were confiscated. According to Criminal Justice Director McKoy, the State Grand Jury returned two separate indictments which charge the leadership and ranking members of the "Champagne Posse" and the members of a related distribution network with criminal conspiracy, leader of a narcotics trafficking network, distribution and possession of a controlled dangerous substance, and money laundering. The principal State Grand Jury indictment outlines the "Champagne Posse" organization and identifies five individuals as the leadership hierarchy. The indictment identifies Neville Minott as the leader of the "Champagne Posse" and the person who allegedly controlled the activities of the organization. Other ranking members of the "Champagne Posse" include Duran Folks, a/k/a Michael Crossbreed, Donald Allen, Winston Hinson and Douglas Freckleton. The indictment was handed-up to Mercer County Superior Court Judge Linda R. Feinberg, the Supervising Judge of the State Grand Jury on Aug. 12. The indictment was sealed pending the arrests of the defendants. The defendants remain in custody in the Essex County Jail on bail amounts ranging from $2 million to $25,000. The second State Grand Jury indictment targets the activities of a distribution network associated with the "Champagne Posse." The indictment charges that from May 17 through Aug. 17, 2001, 21 individuals participated in a conspiracy to distribute more than 600 pounds of . The indictment charges that Valance Fongwoo and Ashton Johnson directed the activities of the criminal organization, including the purchase, transportation, storage and distribution of the . Additionally, the indictment alleges that Johnson arranged for the importation of from California to New Jersey. The alleged trafficking network extended from Essex County and northern New Jersey to Queens, NY, to Allentown, PA. The indictment was handed-up on Aug. 8 and sealed pending arrest of the defendants. In announcing "Operation Moet," Attorney General Harvey, Superintendent Fuentes and Vaughn L. McKoy, Director, Division of Criminal Justice announced that the Attorney General's Office is coordinating a statewide, anti-gang law enforcement initiative that draws resources from numerous federal, state, county, and local law enforcement agencies. The "Gangs, Guns & " initiative centers on the deployment of full-scale patrols by State Police in the City of Irvington, the Essex County metropolitan area and northern New Jersey. The initiative includes law enforcement personnel from the State Police Street Gang Unit and resources from the Division of Criminal Justice, the United States Attorney for New Jersey, the federal Enforcement Administration (DEA), the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI), Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms (ATF), the New Jersey Department of Corrections, the Juvenile Justice Commission, the Essex, Hudson, Union, Passaic, Mercer, Camden and Atlantic County Prosecutor's Offices, county sheriff departments and local police departments. "Operation Moet" was initiated by the State Police Street Gang Unit and received legal, investigative and administrative support from Deputy Attorneys General and state investigators assigned to the Division of Criminal Justice - Major Narcotics Bureau. Additionally, law enforcement resources and personnel from the New Jersey Office of the federal Enforcement Administration (DEA), Alexander Gourley, Special Agent-In-Charge; Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI); the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS); U.S. Marshals Service; New Jersey Department of Corrections; Essex County Prosecutor's Office; Essex County Sheriff's Office; Union County Prosecutor's Office; Bergen County Prosecutor's Office; Middlesex County Prosecutor's Office; Somerset County Prosecutor's Office; Irvington Police Department; Orange Police Department, East Orange Police Department; South Orange Police Department; Newark Police Department; Montclair Police Department; Franklin Police Department; East Brunswick Police Department; New Brunswick Police Department; Mahwah Police Department; Tinton Falls Police Department, New York State Police; New York City Police Department; Newburg (NY) Police Department; Rochester (NY) Police Department, Pennsylvania State Police; New Jersey Transit Police; State Parole and the New Jersey National Guard contributed to the investigation. Attorney General Harvey, Colonel Fuentes and Director McKoy credited Lt. Thomas Alexander, DSFC Keith Bevacqui, Det. II Ronald Hampton, and the staff of the State Police Street Gang Unit for their dedicated work in pursuing the continuing and often complicated investigation. Deputy Attorney's General James E. Jones, Jr. and Andrew Butchko of the Division of Criminal Justice - Major Narcotics Bureau were assigned to the investigation and prepared search and arrest warrants and presented the cases to the State Grand Jury. In the interest of investigative security and pursuant to established court requirements, the Attorney General's Office, the State Police and the Division of Criminal Justice are limited in discussing specific details regarding the ongoing investigation and the alleged conspiracies. All persons charged in criminal indictments are presumed unless and until proven guilty in a court of law. Additional information, including copies of the State Grand Jury indictments, a listing of the defendants and charge information, press release and gang-related information is available via the Division of Criminal Justice Web Page at www.NJDCJ.org or the New Jersey State Police Web Page at www.njsp.org. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Neville Minott; Cross Breed, a/ka Washie, a/k/a Michael Cross Breed, a/k/a Michael Crossloreed; Donald Allen; Winston Hinson, a/k/a Tucker; Douglas Freckleton, a/k/a Dutchie Indictment>> Konrad Campbell; Valance Fongwoo; David Forbes, a/k/a The Commissioner; Denis Ford, a/k/a Yummy; Barbara Gordon; Wayne L. Hamlett; Patrick D. Harding; Troy Hemmans; Derrick Henry; Aston Johnson, a/k/a Shaheed Thompson; Dannever Laylor; Leroy Myers, Jr., a/k/a Heavy D.; Joan Reaves, a/k/a Joan Reid, a/k/a Joan Newland; George Richardson; Alberto Rivera; Joseph Roti; Courtney Slue, a/k/a Boops; Maurice Stewart; Delroy Watson; Andew Wright, a/k/a Puppy Indictment>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Defendant List>> three members of this gang lived in our community - 1 in SO and 2 in Maplewood. Go to the link to find their names and addresses. | ||
| Duncan Citizen Username: Duncanrogers Post Number: 1251 Registered: 12-2001 |
Folks it is a fine line between diligence and hysteria. Lets not fall. "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" Wayne Gretzky | ||
| jeffl Citizen Username: Jeffl Post Number: 228 Registered: 8-2001 |
It must have been the Champagne Posse that beat that kid up in Memorial Park. Seems like their kind of crime. | ||
| nur Citizen Username: Nur Post Number: 163 Registered: 5-2001 |
you miss 100% of the shots you take. | ||
| J. Crohn Citizen Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 722 Registered: 3-2003 |
"Were you aware that a gang house was recently closed in Maplewood? The gang activity involved Dr ug dealing and prostitution? CHS students were involved. Several cars were stolen from CHS in the past several weeks - gang related auto car theft. Teachers at CHS ask security guards to walk them to their cars on days when they have heard gang initiations are going to take place after school." I have heard all this information independently of Marie, from the mother of a female CHS student involved with members of the gang house closed last year in Maplewood. (See my remarks in the other thread.) |
