| Author | Message | ||
     susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 289 Registered: 3-2002 |
I would never expect Morrow to feel duty-bound to offer Hannukah books. Schools are required to enforce balance or avoid religion. Churches and synagogues are clearly not... Morrow may well choose to see books about minority holidays, in part to train Christian kids in diversity by exposing them to other ideas. My Jewish kid doesn't need equivalent exposure to Christmas -- she gets it everywhere else. If this shakes your belief in diversity, then you define diversity differently than I do. | ||
| MHD Citizen Username: Mayhewdrive Post Number: 1835 Registered: 5-2001  |
I also agree that this should not be an issue. The Temple is PRIVATE, can do as they choose and made the right decision. The dramatic words used in the initial post ("appalled", "shocked", "saddened", "disrespected", "horrified") are so completely overboard. I'd hate to see how a REAL tragedy is described. | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 12828 Registered: 10-2001  |
You know, this line could be the best one ever on MOL:
Has anyone asked? | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 12829 Registered: 10-2001 |
Well in defense of Mammabear, let's keep in mind that the Temple does have quite alot of kids who aren't Jewish and so it's probably very distressing to all of a sudden feel like a second class citizen while paying first class money. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 540 Registered: 5-2004  |
Excuse me for believing in diversity. Excuse me for trying to raise my children in a society where your religion, your race or your political offiliation do not matter. mammabear, are you kidding? It's a SYNAGOGUE pre-school. If religion didn't matter, there would be no preschool there. Where your religion don't matter? Every single mall I go to, every single store I walk into, it's Christmas everwhere. heck, in another part of this very site, there's a huge argument going on about how the school board has taken all religion out of the school. Would you prefer that? Religion matters, no matter what you would like to believe. Even more so around this time of year. You say you are offended because they didn't sell Christmas items. Can you imagine (just imagine) how offended the parents of Jewish kids in the pre-school might be if they did? And no matter what you believe as a Christian, to a Jew, Santa is as much a representation of Christmas, if not more, as Jesus. It's not a non-denominational school. It's a synagogue pre-school that includes non-Jews. Do you understand the difference? | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 12830 Registered: 10-2001 |
Speaking of disasters, I can't believe that no one has written about the Tsunamis. That is the most mind boggling thing I can ever remember. | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1642 Registered: 2-2001 |
"Nan - have you read any of the posts? This has nothing to do with "customers" or "capiltalism". It's about discrimination and disrespect." Really, mammabear? Then why did you say this?
| ||
| mammabear Citizen Username: Mammabear Post Number: 145 Registered: 5-2001 |
Starr - I am very sorry you have had those feelings about Christmas. It is sad that you have felt like an outsider. On the flip side, have you ever considered that someone saying "Merry Christmas" meant it in the best possible way? Have you considered that they said it with good feelings, sincerely hoping you had a joyous holiday? Did you realize that since 95% of the country celebrates Christmas in some way, that their well wishes were statistically well thought out? I am not disregarding your feelings, I am not minimizing whatever pain you have experienced, I am merely pointing out that people say those things because they assume you are celebrating the holiday. They are not trying to push Christianity on you or change your religious beliefs, they are wishing you good will. Glass half empty, glass half full. Do you really think that because you feel like you got some raw deal by not celebrating Christmas, my argument holds no water? It's funny..when I spoke to the Rabbi at TSTI, he said something very similar - something along the lines of "you know, when it comes to Christmas, we Jews really get our backs up". This was preceded by "what do you want us to do, put a Christmas tree up for you ?". It's very sad to say that you both have missed the point... | ||
| johnny Citizen Username: Johnny Post Number: 1159 Registered: 5-2001 |
Wise choice Sbenois. | ||
| susan1014 Supporter Username: Susan1014 Post Number: 290 Registered: 3-2002 |
You are welcome to wish me a merry X-mas, I'll wish you happy holidays back, and take your wishes as well meant. That has nothing to do with whether Santa books should be sold in synagogue. I think tht you are the one missing the point...by about 10 miles, I'm afraid. | ||
| mammabear Citizen Username: Mammabear Post Number: 146 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nan - once again, you have missed the point. Nice editing of my post for #1 - funny how when you put the entire post up there, it doesn't fit your argument. As for #2, I was merely showing why certain books and items were selected for sale based on the population to which the items were being marketed. It's not about sales or much money was raised, it's about WHY items were selected for sale. If you had a Jewish booksale aimed at Jewish customers or temple members, then I would expect Jewish books. If you are trying to appeal to a broader range of races/religions/etc, I would assume you would choose a more diverse group of books. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 3575 Registered: 5-2001  |
Mamma- The Y has a program that I'm sure would provide your children with plenty of exposure to Christmas. And, from your extreme emotions on your lack of ability to purchase Santa wrapping paper at a school sale, sounds like you'd be happier with them elsewhere, too. Public schools are secular. Schools based in houses of worship have every right to limit their activities to those relevent to their beliefs. The parents who are members of that faith and/or house of worship may have chosen that school for faith-based reasons. I can only assume that parents whose children are not of that faith chose that school for one of two reasons: to immerse their child in a cultural experience or because they could afford it and there is a dirth of pre-school slots available in the towns. Which one is yours? IMHO, your indignance and disrespect for the belief system of the temple is insulting. Who would have thought the time would come when people would be demanding to put Christmas into the public schools and the Jewish schools?  | ||
| mammabear Citizen Username: Mammabear Post Number: 147 Registered: 5-2001 |
Susan - you may not agree with me, but I am not missing the point. If I am, so are the remaining 20+ Jewish and non-Jewish Board members at the preschool. With the exception of a 2-3 people, we all feel the same way. We have certainly been discriminated against. We are disheartened. We do not agree with the temple's stance. | ||
| mammabear Citizen Username: Mammabear Post Number: 148 Registered: 5-2001 |
Greene - maybe you should read the posts before you comment next time. No one is suggesting any change in curriculum. No ill will is meant toward the Jewish religion. I understand and respect the fact that TSTI is a jewish school. I also mentioned that whatever label you want to give it, the curriculum/associated morals, etc being taught there are great in my book. What I am pointing out is that the preschool population is such that they find the temple's stance to be unacceptable. The demographics speak for themselves. Only about 25% of the preschool even belongs to the temple! As I said, families are sending their children there primarily for the curriculum and Carol Paster and her excellent staff, not because it's a temple-based or jewish program. I am certainly not alone in my views. Not that it's any of your business, but I chose the school because the second I walked in there, I knew it was the right place for my child. I had many options open to me, had two other local non-denominational schools acceot my child, and still chose TSTI. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 543 Registered: 5-2004 |
How, exactly, have you been discriminated against? It's evident from your posts that you've never been the subject of real discrimination. You know, where people throw eggs at you while playing in a school yard. Or where you are prohibited from eating in a restaurant because of the color of your skin. Discriminated against? Please. | ||
| nan Citizen Username: Nan Post Number: 1643 Registered: 2-2001 |
mamabear, There is nothing that I omitted that changes your rationale for the necessity of Jewish temples to market to the non-Jewish student population. In your view, this group is a deserving powerblock, paying more than their share and for whom the school relies upon for continued existence. I imagine you'd also be annoyed if a Jewish restaurant opened up on the West side of Maplewood and refused to serve pork. And I do think that wishing "Merry Christmas" to those that you know to be Jewish is obnoxious. Did you know you can buy Christmas items everywhere, even Drug Fair? Why do you want to shove Christmas down everyone's throat? | ||
| Bobkat Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7111 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nan - While I agree with you may I suggest that you take two valliums and call me in the morning?  Dr. Bob | ||
| Mark Fuhrman Citizen Username: Mfpark Post Number: 1031 Registered: 9-2001  |
Mamabear: Rather than continuing to get your back up, listen to what all these Jewish people are telling you. There must be a reason we are saying what we are saying----it is not simple ethnocentrism. We come from many different backgrounds, but share one thing in common--the experience of being Jewish in America. If we all have a similar reaction, then maybe you need to step back and give this some credence. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 4926 Registered: 1-2003  |
Let me expand on sbenois' short, pithy statement. If religion's goal is to engender compassion, tolerance, and patience, it has failed here. If you have any faith, forgive the disrespect anyone has given you. Consider that the person's action or inaction was well intended, whether it appears so or not. I know what you're talking about. People wish me a happy holiday before Christmas but after Chanukah is over. I know they are referring to Chanukah, because I know they know I'm Jewish. So they goof, but I take it to mean that they want me to be happy, so I take it in that vain. I suspect you are looking for sympathy and understanding. I hope you find it, but it appears you won't find it here. And to find a little more respect, I suggest you offer some, to the school, the synagogue, and to Jews. It will come back around, eventually. | ||
| greenetree Supporter Username: Greenetree Post Number: 3576 Registered: 5-2001 |
Mama- 1. I did, but, frankly, your vociforous and downright hostile attitude towards the Temple board spills, IMHO, over. 2. Well, I beg to differ. As a Jewish person who grew up in an extreme minority and whose parents sent her to religious school so that I could get a sense of my own identity and heritage, it is my business whether people who enter "my community" from the outside are doing so out of respect or convenience. Glad you are here out of respect. Try to keep it that way. Unfortunately, your seeming inability to see the perspective of others, and especially those who are members of that synagogue, reinforces the appearance of your disdain. |
