| Author | Message | ||
     tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1819 Registered: 3-2004 |
You guys, listen. Look. Can you read me? I am saying this: 1) I have a right to be bitter that these people died for want of a decent warning system. 2) I am not blaming anyone for the lack of a warning system, but I think it's odd that American scientists say they tried to warn Indonesian officials, but "didn't know who to contact" (see yahoo news, or maybe I shouldn't believe them?) 3) Government is, by design, not just an instrument of politics, but an instrument of social policy, namely, giving. If we need to give as a nation, why not do it in an organized fashion, through our government (we could start with not bellyaching about paying our taxes, for one) 3A) Individual giving is nice for the soul, but can you track your dollars? Are they going to the right sources? Government may (I emphasize MAY) be able to track the dollars better than individual charities... 4) I didn't start this thread, but I sure wish Bush had responded a bit sooner, and I wish there had been a warning system in place. Scientists knew the Indian Ocean was a tidal wave waiting to happen, and world science is really to blame for not bringing it to the attention of world powers. 5) Many of you are being terribly defensive. You need to know how the other half lives, as ugly as it is, and there are lots of nice tourist places that are in jeopardy because of neglect. Your tourist dollars are not enough to stop the errors of global neglect which only come to the surface in times of disaster, but the disaster has been there ALL ALONG!!! | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1820 Registered: 3-2004 |
Chris: We have early warning systems on the west coast, and all around the globe, but not in the Indian Ocean. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1821 Registered: 3-2004 |
mem: What is repulsive is a nation that is quick to assign blame to an entire sovereign nation for the errors and crimes of another one, and go on a billion dollar attack, meanwhile offer a paltry 35 million to a devastated area of the world. It was inevitable. We are, as a nation, in an identity crisis now. Are we a belligerent, hostile, defensive people, or are we going to prioritize our resources in caring for the needy of the world? | ||
| Rick B Citizen Username: Ruck1977 Post Number: 422 Registered: 8-2003 |
i knew that lingering around this topic in the all politics section would gimme a stomach ache...i never learn. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 195 Registered: 7-2003 |
News to me! Thanks. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4408 Registered: 5-2001  |
tulip is right - they should have had early tidal warning systems - which has been in place in the US since the 1940s. But we are not the only ones lax here, this region of the world is a huge vacation place for europeans, japanese and australians, (the percentage of US vacationers here is miniscule in comparison). Perhaps these countries could have shared their wealth and technology as well. The US is not the only evil one. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 4958 Registered: 1-2003  |
Evil is a harsh word. Are we evil because we know, in hindsight, how we could have done better? Isn't it possible that, as long as "we" are wealthier than "they" are, one can always point to what we could have and should have done? Let's not beat anyone up. Let's do what we now know we need to do. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4409 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tom, I was using "evil" with tongue in cheek, my real point is that if people unfortunately start blaming, then place blame correctly. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1822 Registered: 3-2004 |
Announcements are coming out that every ship from the Bonhomme Richard to others are going for "reconnaissance efforts." At least they have water and a hospital. They don't need aircraft. They need a warning system, equal to those in Japan and the US. I hope this doesn't turn into a war. Please, don't let this turn into a war. | ||
| Sylad Citizen Username: Sylad Post Number: 857 Registered: 6-2002 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- December 29, 2004 Bush Announces 4-Nation Team to Coordinate Relief Efforts By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 12:01 p.m. ET CRAWFORD, Texas (AP) -- President Bush announced Wednesday the United States, India, Australia and Japan have formed an international coalition to coordinate worldwide relief and reconstruction efforts for the Asian region ravaged by a deadly earthquake and tsunamis. ``We will prevail over this destruction,'' Bush said from his Texas ranch in his first comments on the disaster Sunday that so far has killed more than 76,000. Bush said the catastrophe had ``brought loss and grief to the world that is beyond our comprehension,'' and he pledged a multifaceted response from the United States that goes far beyond the $35 million initially pledged. In the short-term, the help will include damage assessment teams and U.S. military manpower, such as a Marine expeditionary force followed by long-term rebuilding assistance. He said he'd also examine a suggestion from German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder to consider putting a moratorium on the debt of hard-hit Somalia and Indonesia. ``We'll look at all requests,'' said Bush, who talked by phone Wednesday morning with leaders from Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand and India. ``We're still in the stage of immediate help. But slowly but surely, the size of the problem will become known, particularly when it comes to rebuilding infrastructure and community to help these affected parts of the world get back up on their feet.'' Meantime, the International Monetary Fund said it will work with governments affected by the disaster to provide reconstruction and financial assistance. But details have not been worked out, with governments more focused now on dealing with the immediate humanitarian crisis, officials of the financial institution said. The president called on Americans to donate cash to relief organizations to augment the response and said he expected several other nations to join the coalition started by the four countries. ``The United States will continue to stand with the affected governments as they care for the victims,'' he said. ``We will stand with them as they start to rebuild their communities. And together the world will cope with their loss.'' Bush said he talked to the leaders in the affected region and was working to target initial relief efforts to the things those leaders most need, pending damage assessments. He expressed concern the Asian region wasn't prepared with a warning system that foretold the massive tsunamis and threw his support behind creation of a worldwide system. ``It makes sense for the world to come together to develop a warning system to help all nations,'' he said. The president also has asked Commerce Secretary Don Evans and Interior Secretary Gale Norton to investigate whether the United States is adequately prepared for tsunamis that might strike the U.S. coast. The U.S. Geological Survey at Interior and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration at Commerce are the two agencies addressing that issue. The president also pointedly dismissed a United Nation official's suggestion that rich nations like the United States have been ``stingy'' in relief efforts. ``I felt like the person who made that statement was very misguided and ill informed,'' Bush said. U.S. Agency for International Development chief Andrew Natsios told The Associated Press on Tuesday that the $35 million aid package has drained his organization's emergency relief fund, forcing it to ask Congress or the White House for more money. ``We just spent it,'' Natsios said. ``We'll be talking to the (White House) budget office.'' The State Department said Tuesday that 12 Americans had died in the disaster -- seven in Sri Lanka and five in Thailand. Hundreds of Americans remain missing. Bush said U.S. officials were working hard to locate many more Americans who remain unaccounted for and to provide assistance to those who were injured or displaced in the region. ``Our prayers go out to those who have lost so much to this series of disasters,'' he said. The State Department, meanwhile, encouraged all American citizens traveling in any part of the countries hit by the earthquake to telephone family members to let them know they are doing. If the travelers need help they should get in touch with U.S. diplomatic posts, the department said in a statement. Copyright 2004 The Associated Press | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | RSS | Help | Back to Top | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 547 Registered: 5-2004  |
tulip, A warning system will not help the people already dead. Yes, there should be one, and htere will be. I don't know where your concern about a war is coming from. Who would go to war? What would the war be about? What are you talking about? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1823 Registered: 3-2004 |
Rastro: It's just my response to the news that the American response is mobilization of the military. There seems to be a fine line between the military and the helpers. Now we hear that there are "militants" in Asia who are resisting aid. It sounds like an excuse for war. Are you listening to this guy Dan Goure of the "Lexington Institute?" He seems to be making the case for not trying to aid sectors of the society because they are "guerrillas." What's his evidence? Do we ask politics before we help? | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4410 Registered: 5-2001 |
Tulip - yes they do need aircraft - to move water, food and medical supplies - they don't need runways to make airift drops. As far as war, simmer down! Who is going to fight who here? | ||
| Rick B Citizen Username: Ruck1977 Post Number: 423 Registered: 8-2003 |
tulip, the sensors were not installed because funding fell through...in hindsite its horrible, but had nothing happened, would anyone be up in arms about sensors not being in the Indian Ocean? There are no sensors in the Atlantic Ocean either (according to what I heard last night). imagine a year ago, some program was not funded because we wanted to fund an initiative to check for giant tidal waves in the Indian/Atlantic oceans. Two places where seismic activity is not prevalent. people could have been up in arms stating, what is the need for this? what are the chances that this could happen, there is no scientific evidence! your criticism should not include the hindsite IMHO. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 1838 Registered: 5-2001  |
Forty percent of all the relief aid given in the world last year was provided by the United States government. I don't think 0.14% of our GNP is enough, but the statement above (if true - it's from the White House) provides some perspective. Some of my fellow Bush haters have gotten habituated to finding fault with the administration in every scenario. Being critical should mean being smart, not just being negative. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1824 Registered: 3-2004 |
Rick B: I beg to differ. 1) Seismic activity is much more prevalent in the Indian Ocean than in the Atlantic which has more stabilized plates. 2)Sensors should have been installed. Funding ran out. No one would have known, were it not for this disaster. That, in itself, is indefensible. It's unequal treatment, and if I had known about it ahead of time, I would have complained that it was clearly unfair. Why should the US west coast have sensors, Japan have sensors, but not the Indian Ocean? Obviously, money is the reason. I don't blame the US, I really don't know who is to blame for that. Do you? | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1825 Registered: 3-2004 |
I DIDN'T CRITICIZE BUSH FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN BEING LATE TO RESPOND. I DIDN'T START THIS THREAD, AND I WONDER WHY MY NAME IS THE ONLY ONE ON THE ARCHIVE LIST ABOVE. IS THERE AN ANSWER TO THIS, OTHER THAN THAT I AM A THORN IN THE SIDE OF THE ENTIRE COMMUNITY OF MOL | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 4959 Registered: 1-2003 |
Your name is there because you are the last poster on that archive page. The machine assigns that, not a human. Don't worry. | ||
| Marc Citizen Username: Bautisma Post Number: 228 Registered: 9-2003 |
your name is on the archive list becuase you were the 20th post. yes you are a thorn although good for comic relief once in a while. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4411 Registered: 5-2001 |
Notehead, You obviously have not read my posts. They may help your perspective. I studied this in foreign policy class for my MBA. How much of our poor and struggling to make ends meet tax dollars are you willing to give to other countries to meet your version of % of gdp expectation? Especially when we don't have to give away their dollars, there's plenty of rich entities to do so instead. |
