| Author | Message | ||
     sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 1666 Registered: 10-2001 |
If it includes your salary then yes. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4416 Registered: 5-2001  |
Thanks Cathy, I'm aware of the current gdp data comparisons etc., but my int'l marketing textbooks are from 1996, so it may be outdated info for private sector contribution, which presented the US as having the largest highest volume of charity organization per pop., as well as the largest dollar amount contribution. I'm not sure I would trust what the UN states.  | ||
| Cathy Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 664 Registered: 6-2002 |
mem, I can't find my original papers on this but I found some data from the World Bank (1998 data). Remember that we're not talking about highest volume of charity donation per population, but per GDP. Because our GDP is high for our population size the per-population measures may make us look more generous than they would as a function of income. In any case, I was partially in error - the US is not at the bottom, but sixth amongst the OECD (Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development) in terms of private donations as % of GDP. Norway, Germany, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Australia beat us out, but many others lag behind. However, I'm not entirely wrong either. When you add up TOTAL public + private foreign assistance, the U.S. is still at the bottom of the barrel. We give a total of .13% of GDP to foreign assistance (that's about .1 from public sources, + .03 from private). The next lowest is Italy at .20. As a comparison, the UN has asked wealthier countries to commit to .7% of GDP in development assistance in order to meet the Millennium Development Goals. A few countries have managed to get there. So although our private giving is respectable, it's not at the top, and it nowhere near makes up for what our government doesn't give. There is a more conservative measure called the CDI that is also used - it is a more subtle measure and takes into account more than just dollars given. I'll be honest in saying that I haven't got a clue how it's calculated, but it's meant to be fairer to countries with larger economies. However, even on this measure we are at the rock bottom. Some sources are: http://www.worldbank.org/data/wdi2000/pdfs/tab6_8.pdf http://hdr.undp.org/reports/global/2003/pdf/hdr03_chapter_8.pdf Anyway - the main point, whether you think our gov't should give more or not (and I do think that the U.S. should be more generous), we ALL have a moral obligation to dig as deep as possible for the tsunami relief. | ||
| Cathy Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 665 Registered: 6-2002 |
tulip, just now noticed your query to me from 4:51 - sorry, I was doing math to answer mem and eating my dinner. Note that my daughter didn't respond to any request from GWB to open up her piggy bank. She did this on her own initiative because she was saddened when she heard about people who had been swept out to sea, and others who lost their family members and their homes and access to clean drinking water. I happen to think she did the right thing and I'm terribly proud of her. Personally I believe that we need more of both private & public giving, not just to help the tsunami relief but to address the everyday starvation, disease, and homelessness that the world is so plagued by. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4418 Registered: 5-2001 |
Cathy, Excellent points. We should try more to do more for the care and education of own people as well. I used to work in Newark, and conditions there rival those of third world countries. Sounds like you're doing an great job with your daughter... | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1843 Registered: 3-2004 |
Cathy: Of course she did the right thing, and I am not trying to minimize the significance of her altruism. PLEASE do not misunderstand that. I am making (forgive me for my arrogance) a macroeconomic observation, that it would be better if we did this in an organized, nationwide way, say, through taxes, than one to one. That's all. and I mean, in the future... | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1844 Registered: 3-2004 |
Everyone: One last thought: Four hours of the war in Iraq cost thirty-five million dollars. | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 12837 Registered: 10-2001  |
Nothing like turning a catastrophe into yet another opportunity to take cheap shots at conservatives. | ||
| Mustt_mustt Citizen Username: Mustt_mustt Post Number: 181 Registered: 8-2003 |
Whaver happened to Diego Garcia? THe island,, 1000 miles of the souhtern Indian coast? Directly in the line of the tsunami and yet no news from DG! How come DG did not figure in the news at all? Here's the news: All the 50 British troops were evacuated. The US Naval Communication Staff were evacuated too. The Americans had a tsunami warning system in place in the Pacific Ocean but not in the Indian Ocean....long story. | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 4839 Registered: 4-1998  |
Myanmar only reporting 90 deaths. Seems a bit low. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1845 Registered: 3-2004 |
Nothing like turning a catastrophe into yet another opportunity to take cheap shots at conservatives. Sbenois: This is not about a cheapshot at conservatives. There's nothing "conservative" about spending $35,000,000 every four hours. And there's nothing cheap about arguing that there's been a misplacement of priorities in a highjacked civilization...ours. And as for opportunism, I can think of worse examples of it on this message board. musst: Thanks for presenting yet another piece of evidence that the truth was known, but not widely circulated...this time, by the US. I don't see anyone of our usual right wing radicals responding to that!! | ||
| Bobkat Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7125 Registered: 5-2001 |
The Bush White House, usually so savvy, didn't respond quickly on this, maybe because Bush was on vacation. It is hard to understand why he didn't make a statement earlier and not doing so was an international political blunder. This is especially true because Indonesia is the largest Muslim country in the world. The GOPers are also pissed because Clinton made a lot of comments on the BBC while in London that could be construed as critical, something he probably should not have done based on long standing traditions that ex-Presidents don't hit on sitting Presidents. The initial announcement of $15,000,000 came across as cheap, mainly because it wasn't announced as a preliminary figure to start moving. I suspect just moving a carrier group and the Bon Homme Richard attack group cost more than $15 mil. | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 4841 Registered: 4-1998 |
Re: Diego Garcia:
Telegraph story (UK) Incidentally,
http://www.coralreefalliance.org/aboutcoralreefs/care.html | ||
| Cathy Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 666 Registered: 6-2002 |
tulip, although I agree with much of what you're saying, I agree with sbenois too. Now is NOT the time for discussion of the Iraq war. You've made your point about the cost, now move on. And even if the government gave considerably more in aid, I'd still be donating to charities every year. Why? Because it's the right thing to do. Having the government give more does not absolve me of that responsibility. mem, many people in Newark may be very bad off, and I agree with you that much help is needed there. And that help is particularly relevant to us, as they are our neighbors. But they are nowhere near in the desparate straits that people are in in sub-Saharan Africa (for example) or many parts of Southeast Asia (for another example). I have not been to those places myself so of course I'm not the most credible source on this, but there is really no comparison. I hear the same argument made a lot by my students, and it has some validity to it. Some of my students have stated it even more strongly and suggested that we should provide no foreign aid. But I always pose this question to them which is - how well-off do WE have to be before we think it is now time to open up our purse strings for the rest of the world? e.g. how low does infant mortality have to get, how low our rates of maternal mortality, how good our drinking water, how low our rates of preventable disease, how low our rates of death via starvation, how low our rates of education, before we feel that it is now time to lend a hand overseas. Do we have to reach perfection, i.e. zero poverty? Is that attainable? Is it morally justifiable to wait until then? Read the UN Millennium Development Goals documentation - it is an eye-opener about the scope and scale of the problems that exist on this planet. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1846 Registered: 3-2004 |
Dave: Weren't there coral reefs around the countries that were inundated? And if their coral reefs were gone, why? | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 4842 Registered: 4-1998 |
Weren't the Maldives devestated? Damage 2x its GDP?
Wonder what became of that wall. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1847 Registered: 3-2004 |
Exactly. So how come the Diego Garcia reefs held up while the others were no barrier at all? My guess is, Diego Garcia has not been used as a resort, and the traffic there has been lighter, so the reefs have remained. The implication of this for the future, and given the news that coral reefs can sometimes regenerate, why don't we let them do so and have some more regional planning for resorts and littoral build-up, internationally? | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 12838 Registered: 10-2001 |
Tulip, I think Bush secretly went out on a secret scuba diving mission Saturday night and ate the Coral reef offshore at Sri Lanka. This resulted in a worse loss of life. I think Bush knew what he was doing by eating so much of the reef and I'll bet he didn't even care! That brilliant sick bastard. | ||
| tulip Citizen Username: Braveheart Post Number: 1848 Registered: 3-2004 |
Sbenois, You mean you can be brilliant and sick at the same time? PS Bush and the so-called conservatives need to make some pre-emptive planning for international disasters, now, especially with global warming, rising sea levels, and lots of islands in the endangered zone, globally. ...and this doesn't mean I'm blaming your precious so-called conservatives...but they have some homework to do. Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown. | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 4843 Registered: 4-1998 |
For Sbenois' reading list -- The Reefs of Taprobane by Arthur C. Clarke |
