| Author | Message | ||
     gemini Citizen Username: Gemini Post Number: 344 Registered: 6-2001 |
Hi Zoesky, Hope you had a nice Christmas. thanks for the great post, see ya soon. | ||
| Joe R. Citizen Username: Ragnatela Post Number: 137 Registered: 6-2004 |
Mammabear: I'm Catholic. My kid goes to St. Stephen's in Millburn(Episcopal). We had a Christmas celebration there (Breakfast with Santa). I don't remember any particular outcry about that and there are all kinds of kids there. I guess the point is, these schools don't pretend to be and really can't be all things to all people. The only thing they promise is the education. There are plenty of pre-schools to choose from...Catholic, Jewish, Episcopal and some which are not associated with any denomination at all. Pick the one that suits you best, but there is nothing for you to protest and there is nothing for the Tefilo school to apologize for. I don't see how you can have taken offense. I respect their need to, at base, remain true to the principles of Judaism. This acceptance of the differences between us is the common thread that binds us together as a community. | ||
| lizzyr Citizen Username: Lizzyr Post Number: 158 Registered: 5-2001 |
mammabear - put your life in perspective, click here & spend the money your couldn't at S-T on Christmas wrapping paper. https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/ka/sd/donorcustom.asp?c=foIJKQMFF&b=89844&knta w3112=FCB6C752A9194770A605AC9E1A81BFCE | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 4961 Registered: 1-2003  |
I take mammabear's silence since Tuesday to mean that she gets the point. Let's not beat her down. | ||
| mem Citizen Username: Mem Post Number: 4414 Registered: 5-2001  |
I think everyone here has been very patient and thoughtful for the most part towards mamabear's issue. Hopefully her anger has died down and she understands that she should respect the fact that they do not have to sell christmas items at the fund raiser, and they shouldn't be expected to. | ||
| anon Citizen Username: Anon Post Number: 1553 Registered: 6-2002 |
Amen | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1372 Registered: 6-2003  |
So it's okay for faith-based social services (like pre-schools) to serve a diverse clientele but still discriminate on the basis of their own faith. BTW, can the female teachers at this place still get birth control pills and abortion services on their health care plan, or has this been cut off? | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 561 Registered: 5-2004  |
Mont, that's ridiculous. Again, how has ANYONE been discriminated against? Because they decided not to sell 3 friggin' Christmas items at a thrift sale? Are you out of your MIND? Does that mean that I am discriminated against if I go to a church sale and they are not selling Hannukah items? Should I expect a Mulsim mosque, raising money for their school, to sell Hannukah items? Just because they do not discriminate in accepting students for the school doesn't mean they have to EMBRACE the faiths of others. It's possible to respect someone's religion and still not sell their religious items. I have no idea what your comment about birth control and abortion services has to do with anything. Jewish organizations tend to be relatively liberal about those things. They are much more likely to get them at a Synagogue than they are at a Church. I can't speak for TSTI, but the synagogue I used to go to in NYC provided health care that covered both those things. But what does that have to do with selling Santa Claus wrapping paper? Or are you just looking for someone to vent your anger at now that Bush is back in office? | ||
| Debby Citizen Username: Debby Post Number: 1471 Registered: 5-2001 |
"So it's okay for faith-based social services (like pre-schools) to serve a diverse clientele but still discriminate on the basis of their own faith. " So failing to celebrate Christmas is discrimination? That's the most Christocentric, provincial thing I've ever heard. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 4612 Registered: 5-2001 |
Montagnard: There is a huge difference between the members of a congregation observing their own religious traditions and discriminating against those who observe other traditions. The wrapping paper may have been discriminated against but nobody was discriminating against mammabear or any of the other non-Jewish participants in the pre-school. | ||
| Brett Weir Citizen Username: Brett_weir Post Number: 511 Registered: 4-2004 |
Sorry, Mont, but there is a big difference between discrimination and preservation of one's Faith. I am not Jewish, but I recognize this need to preserve their Faith, and I respect it. | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1374 Registered: 6-2003 |
Given mammabear's original post: "The preschool at Sharey-Tefilo [is]... multicultural with about 30% non-jewish students... After a Board Meeting and discussions with several preschool Board Members, the temple has held it's position, much to the Preschool Board's dismay." (from which I infer that the Preschool Board had no objection to a few seasonal items from the majority culture like gift wrap or children's books with references to Santa Claus). Parents from outside the Temple would reasonably expect the Preschool Board to be acting within its mandate when it made decisions on what would be offered at the fundraising. Now they know it's a more religious place than they were led to believe. | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 12855 Registered: 10-2001  |
Imagine that. | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 4616 Registered: 5-2001 |
A place of worship, not religious? How would anyone reach that conclusion? | ||
| anon Citizen Username: Anon Post Number: 1554 Registered: 6-2002 |
Joan: Maybe Montagnard is ultra-orthodox and doesn't consider a Reform Temple to be a very religious place.  | ||
| Joan Supporter Username: Joancrystal Post Number: 4620 Registered: 5-2001 |
Anon: Just because some of the kids in the congregation refer to TSTI as "Our Lady of the Parking Lot" doesn't mean the place isn't religious.  | ||
| Debby Citizen Username: Debby Post Number: 1474 Registered: 5-2001 |
Nobody has ever been led to believe that it is a secular school. All children bring lunch several times a week, and all parents are aware of and observe the basic Jewish dietary laws: no pork or shellfish. All children, Jewish or not, serve as the highly esteemed "Shabbat Children" at least twice a year - an honor that includes saying the blessings over the grape juice, challah and candles, and sitting on the bimah with Rabbi Cohen or Rabbi Miller to sing "Shabbat is Here" and "Baruch Atah - We Thank You God". And let me tell you something - the Gentile parents and grandparents kvell and take just as many pictures as their Jewish counterparts. | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 222 Registered: 8-2004 |
Mamma- I think you are missing a very important point! You send your kids to s JEWISH SCHOOL!!! I don't think it's discrimination to not sell christams paper at their fund raiser. I think you are way out of line to even be causing a scene over this. If you don't like how they do things send your children to school somewhere else!!! I know people who are not Catholic who send their children to catholic schools and guess what? These kids still have to go to church every day with the rest of their class! Stop your complaining and put your kids in a school more toward your liking. Simple solution!!! | ||
| Joe R. Citizen Username: Ragnatela Post Number: 138 Registered: 6-2004 |
Case closed! This is how the school describes itself. Mammabear either knew it or should have known it. Now she'll get used to it or move on. This dead horse of an issue can't stand anymore beatings. " The Preschool Board also works with the Director to create a foundation for a school that supports the growth of each child within a Jewish setting. Ours is a Jewish focused preschool program open to all members of the community." | ||
| mammabear Citizen Username: Mammabear Post Number: 154 Registered: 5-2001 |
I thought you guys were done...but since you still have comments, so do I. First, my issue is what the school represented itself to be vs. what it really is. You know - talking out of both sides of its mouth. Forget what some website says..the preschool is sold to everyone as a multicultural school. Yes, it has a Jewish curriculum, but it is mutlicultural with a hig concentration od non-Jews and Jews who do not wish to be religious. Only 25% of the preschool families are even members of the temple. This is not Oheb, it's Sharey-Tefilo. Second, the preschool Board is made up of parents and therefore, is diverse as well. We make decisions at the preschool level that we think make sense for the preschool. The decision to sell a couple of Santa books and have some Christmas-ish wrapping paper was a made by the Board and the memebrs in charge of that event. It has been handled the same way every year. There have been Christmas books and other holiday items sold at the vendor night in the past. It was a non-issue until this year. And the abrupt removal of the items was handled very poorly. It was offenseive and malicious. The Board memebrs in charge of both sales were informed that Christmas items "made people feel sick." Nice. Again, I'm not trying to force a change, just shocked that it became a huge issue for some temple hierarchy types all of a sudden. Finally, I do not wish to ruin some haven where people feel comfortable during the holidays. I do not mean to sound discriminatory or anti-semetic in any way. I am not trying to balk the system at my neighborhood temple and force Christmas on them. I am furious because I have dedicated myself to something that is not what it represented itself to be. I have given my time, energy, etc. only to suddenly be unwelcome. If the school wants to be 100% Jewish, then I respect that decision, but you can't have it both ways. You can't welcome other people from the community, then not respect their differences. It's like the school is going through some identity crisis! |
