| Author | Message | ||
     Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 4372 Registered: 10-2001 |
bobk talking about the train wreck (suicide attempt) | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 361 Registered: 9-2004 |
Phenix it is not that you want to see Americans die, but when tragedy strikes, you use it to take political shots at Bush. Guy, Who chose to invade Iraq? It starts from the top…Bush! | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 651 Registered: 5-2004  |
Guy, outrage is a bit like Love. There's plenty to go around. Outrage at the insurgents does not preclude outrage at Bush. They're not mutually exclusive. | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1488 Registered: 1-2003  |
Ok, fine, its all Bush's fault. What do you suggest we do? | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 508 Registered: 8-2004 |
Phenix , perhaps you should blame Congress also. http://hnn.us/articles/1282.html Rastro, I didn't see the word insurgents used in this thread until your post. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 773 Registered: 7-2004 |
"What do you suggest we do?" Impeaching Bush would be a good start. Trying him for treason would be even better... | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 5108 Registered: 4-1998  |
What would Cheney do that Bush isn't doing? | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 774 Registered: 7-2004 |
And Straw, it is absolutely disgusting of you to repeatedly suggest anyone here is rooting for the death of our troops or citizens at home. You should be ashamed, but I'm not sure that's an emotion you register. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 775 Registered: 7-2004 |
Good point, Dave. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 362 Registered: 9-2004 |
Who pleaded the case to Congress? from the article: Whereas on September 12, 2002, President Bush committed the United States to `work with the United Nations Security Council to meet our common challenge' posed by Iraq and to `work for the necessary resolutions,' while also making clear that `the Security Council resolutions will be enforced, and the just demands of peace and security will be met, or action will be unavoidable'; I guess we should believe our President at ALL times even if he's misinformed. | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 652 Registered: 5-2004 |
Guy, people aren't railing against hte insurgents here (I believe) because that's a given. It's like railing against terrorists. This forum (All Politics) is for confrontation. If everyone agrees on something, it's not very confrontational, is it? Look at the threads that are about things people agree on (e.g. The UN finaly acknowledging the Holocaust). They tend to die off. Now the ones with real disagreement, those are the ones that thrive. In a way, these boards remind me of that old Star Trek episode, with the being that thrives on hate. Unfortunately, I think if we all got along, these boards would be singificantly less popular. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 509 Registered: 8-2004 |
Rastro, I can picture Kirk and The Klingons laughing as we speak. | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1489 Registered: 1-2003 |
Add to that... What would Kerry do differently? He had a plan... it was called the Bush plan. And RL, give the outrage a break... you want the US to fail, You want Bush to fail, you want Iraq to become an Islamic extremist stronghold. You do. If that means troops die, or citizens die, then you would rather that than having Bush be right. Ask yourself, what would you rather happen, Iraq becomes a stable and peaceful democracy, Making Bush an even bigger hero- or Iraq being a quagmire and Bush looking bad. Don't tell me what you think is happening, but what would you like to happen. You should be ashamed. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 1954 Registered: 5-2001  |
I really think Phenix deserves an apology from both Straw and MJ. | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 776 Registered: 7-2004 |
MJ: You are so far gone, it's not even funny. Everything you say is wrong and offensive. I demand an apology. | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1490 Registered: 1-2003 |
You are so far gone, it's not even funny. Everything you say is wrong and offensive Robert, Psychologists call that "projecting". You'll get an apology when you answer the question I asked honestly, well, you won't need one then. Come on Robert, ask yourself, what do you want more, Stability in Iraq or Bush looking bad- even if it means more troops dying? What would make you happier? What do you REALLY want? I think the answer will suprise you. | ||
| Paul Surovell Supporter Username: Paulsurovell Post Number: 218 Registered: 2-2003 |
The issue here is that those who support the war are responsible for every death and injury incurred by US armed forces in Iraq, as well as every death and injury incurred by the Iraqi people. Had Bush allowed the UN inspections process to proceed, we would have found out fairly quickly that there were no weapons of mass destruction and there was no imminent threat to the United States. More than 1,300 Americans would not have lost their lives and more than 10,000 Americans would not have suffered serious injury. The same for the more than 100,000 Iraqi civilians killed as a result of the US war policy (Johns Hopkins Medical School study). The American people also would have had about $300 billion more to spend on necessary programs, like providing decent facilities for homeless people so they don't start fires in subways to keep warm when the alternative is to freeze to death. The way out of this mess is to go back to square one -- turn responsibility for Iraqi sovereignty back to the UN Security Council and begin the complete withdrawal of US forces, concurrently with the arrival of UN peacekeepers. This approach is supported by military/security experts like Brent Scowcroft, Zbigniew Brzezinski and William Odom. As far as today's loss of American life, it is especially tragic because it was completely unnecessary, and would not have happened, if not for the war-conquest-domination agenda of the Bush administration. This Sunday (Jan 30th) South Mountain Peace Action will host 2 NJ antiwar veterans who served in Iraq, one of whom returned a couple of months ago. The other served in the first Gulf War. If you'd like to hear what they have to say, email or call me at: paul4sure@aol.com / 973-763-9493. Paul Surovell Co-Chair South Mountain Peace Action | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 510 Registered: 8-2004 |
Janay asks a fair question. Look at the following quotes from the left. I have a confession," wrote Salon Executive Editor Gary Kamiya on April 10. "I have at times, as the war has unfolded, secretly wished for things to go wrong. Wished for the Iraqis to be more nationalistic, to resist longer. Wished for the Arab world to rise up in rage. Wished for all the things we feared would happen. I'm not alone: A number of serious, intelligent, morally sensitive people who oppose the war have told me they have identical feelings." Or take Jonathan Schell, writing in the Sept. 22 issue of the Nation: "[Democratic Senator Joe] Biden says we must win the war. This is precisely wrong. The United States must learn to lose this war a harder task, in many ways, than winning, for it requires admitting mistakes and relinquishing attractive fantasies. This is the true moral mission of our time." | ||
| Robert Livingston Citizen Username: Rob_livingston Post Number: 777 Registered: 7-2004 |
From AP: "The story today is going to be very discouraging to the American people," Bush said on the deadliest day for U.S. forces since the Iraq war began. "I understand that. It is the long-term objective that is vital — that is to spread freedom." Here’s what I want, Janay. I want Bush to start speaking like a real person instead of a cartoon superhero. I want Bush to admit he lied to the American people when he said we were invading Iraq for WMDs and Al-Qaida ties. I want Bush to stop exploiting 9-11. I want our troops out of Iraq, safely back with their families. I want Bush to propose better initiatives to keep terrorists from striking again. I want Bush to admit a mistake. Just one. He can choose. But it’s not really a question of what I want. It’s a question of where does it end. How many troops have to die, Janay, before we admit invading Iraq was a mistake? And here’s a question for you: If you believe so firmly in this war, in Bush, in the direction America is headed, why are you not out fighting for it? Clearly we will need to replenish the troops we a losing every day… | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1491 Registered: 1-2003 |
Jesus, I've defeated your "Why aren't you fighting it" straw man a multitude of times. Why do you keep bothering? Nice try avoiding the question though. You want Bush to admit a mistake, SEE, thats it... you can't handle the fact he may be right. Sucess in Iraq would mean Bush didn't make mistakes, you just can't handle that thought, can you? You would rather see the US fail than see that Bush might just be right. The initiative that Bush is proposing to keep terrorists from striking again, IS SPREADING FREEDOM!. So you want our troops back, should we just give up? retreat in the face of a relatively small insurgency? Whether Iraq is a success or failure has NOTHING to do with how many troops die. NOTHING! Here is the way to gauge success or failure. If Iraq becomes a free democracy, and an ally that helps to spread liberty and freedom to other middle east countries, then a million or more deaths will be worth it. If we let Iraq become a religious tyranny fomenting terror, then even one death will have been too many. Luckily it looks like Iraq is going the way of freedom, it will take more sacrifice- but the results will be worth it. And recruitment goals for the armed forces are above targets, so replenishing the troops is not a problem. Even if my old ••• doesn't go. |
