| Author | Message | ||
     Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1013 Registered: 8-2003  |
"Democracy" doesn't necessarily equal freedom, and it certainly doesn't necessarily equal western secularism. Citizens can vote to oppress minority groups, and they can vote to take away their own freedoms and cede control to religious totalitarianism. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 4422 Registered: 10-2001  |
So am I to understand that Nohero, Doc and to a degree, Bobk, oppose the election process in Iraq. And as a general rule you oppose most elections? My guess is no, but I'm curious to hear what you have to say about your statements. | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 4292 Registered: 10-1999  |
Well, that sort of twists and misrepresents what I and the others have said, but then, why should I be surprised. My bad for assuming that Straw wanted a discussion. Never mind, then. | ||
| Bobkat Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7433 Registered: 5-2001 |
Straw, not at all. You just have to realize that the definition of democracy may be different in the middle east than in the US or Western Europe. As an example Sistani, from posts in other sections supports a country built around Islamic law. The majority of Shites in the new legislative body probably will vote to include it in the constitution. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 4423 Registered: 10-2001 |
Actually Nohero, I've cornered you and you came out swinging. You don't want to denounce the Democratic process in Iraq, but then again you won't support it either. As I've said all along, only complaints, not solutions. The liberal belief that Islamic Radicals will win elections in Iraq because this is what the people want makes no sense. If that were the case, the people would have stayed away from the polls. That would have been confirmation enough as to their support of the radicals. Instead what 50%-60% came out despite promised bloodshed. A tremendous statement and a big victory against terrorism. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1015 Registered: 8-2003 |
I don't oppose elections in Iraq. It's just an oversimplification to believe that democratic elections there (or anywhere else) are ipso facto good for the U.S. Lots of governments around the world have been democratically elected and hostile to the U.S. | ||
| cjc Citizen Username: Cjc Post Number: 3058 Registered: 8-2003 |
Take France, for instance. Maybe Iraq will just be another France and that's as bad as it will get. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1016 Registered: 8-2003 |
when I typed that, I expected the obligatory crack about the French. but what the hell took so long? Twenty-eight whole minutes. Everybody must be busy this morning... | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 4293 Registered: 10-1999 |
"I've cornered you and you came out swinging." No, and that's another example of the futility of having these discussions with you. I pointed out a fact that needed to be considered - and you turned it into an accusation and a distortion of what I said. So, that's why I said "Never mind". You don't need me for this discussion, you can just make up stuff and assign someone's name to it. | ||
| algebra2 Supporter Username: Algebra2 Post Number: 2932 Registered: 5-2001  |
Nohero -- You have a way of taking all the fun out of debating. It would make a more enjoyable read for the rest of us if you'd just stop getting so defensive. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1017 Registered: 8-2003 |
We're supposed to be funny how? Funny like a clown? We're here to amuse you? We're supposed to make you laugh? We're here to ******' amuse you? | ||
| Nohero Citizen Username: Nohero Post Number: 4294 Registered: 10-1999 |
 I'm not defensive, I'm late for lunch and I'm hungry. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 389 Registered: 9-2004 |
Nohero -- You have a way of taking all the fun out of debating. It would make a more enjoyable read for the rest of us if you'd just stop getting so defensive. I believe Nohero is making his point. No, and that's another example of the futility of having these discussions with you. I pointed out a fact that needed to be considered - and you turned it into an accusation and a distortion of what I said. So, that's why I said "Never mind". You don't need me for this discussion, you can just make up stuff and assign someone's name to it. I do agree with Nohero tho. Especially the latter part! And again, I don't see the amusement here. | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1021 Registered: 8-2003 |
this whole board is for the fun and amusement of some of its members, didn't you know that? the rest of us are just their monkeys. and if it isn't "fun" enough, some of them get petulant. So be more FUN, dammit!  | ||
| algebra2 Supporter Username: Algebra2 Post Number: 2937 Registered: 5-2001 |
Exactly.  | ||
| Dr. Winston O'Boogie Citizen Username: Casey Post Number: 1022 Registered: 8-2003 |
I do my best  | ||
| joeltfk Citizen Username: Joeltfk Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2001  |
Reading these posts for the first time, I find myself agreeing that Iraqi Elections are a good thing. So would free elections in many other parts of the world. So is chunky peanut butter. However, is it worth making a preemptive military strike, costing close to 2,000 U.S. lives and countless innocent others, on a country that never substantially threatened us? Most liberals I know don't like having the truth distorted, being lied to, and being treated like idiots by an idiot whose Presidency was arranged for him and is being led by neoconservatives and religious evangelicals. It's these positions I and most liberals find indefensible, not whether or not a free Iraqi election is good for Iraq, per se. | ||
| Strawberry Supporter Username: Strawberry Post Number: 4438 Registered: 10-2001 |
that's why liberals no longer have a say so in our Government. Reduced to nothing more then an annoying itch, like a bug bite. Liberals just have a complete inability to think outside the box. It's always after the facts with libs. "Iraq was no threat." Actually this wasn't what our CIA, and G. Britian's intelligence agency said. This isn't what Russia said, this isn't what Bill Clinton said. So, any lib who makes the claim they knew Iraq posed no threat is full of ••••. Also, ask any lib if they thought elections would work, and they say no weeks ago. Now, they say "well it looks like they worked...but..blah blah blah." Liberals have a complete inability to get it right. | ||
| Guy Supporter Username: Vandalay Post Number: 528 Registered: 8-2004 |
Straw, right again. Even Chris Matthews is bothered by Democrats these days and he's one of them. Chris Matthews: "There is something precious about it and why do these guys always elect somebody who’s precious. It must be because in the chambers, when they’re talking to each other you don’t have to be Knute Rockne. It’s all about these little whispers ‘I can help you with that’ or ‘You want to go home Thursday, you’ve got to go home for that thing, let me help you with that’ and it must be very special. But these guys are not Lyndon Johnson, Sam Rayburn, or Tip O’Neill. Tip O’Neill hated whispers, couldn’t stand them. I worked with him for six years, he couldn’t stand people that came around with their soft little precious voices. He wanted you to thunder out what you believed and what you cared about, and that kind of democrat whether it’s Hubert Humphrey, or it’s Jack Kennedy or Johnson or Tip, where are they? I mean you knew where they stood because they told you. You know Tip would have been out today saying, ‘Good work Regan, you know I didn’t think it was going to happene but damn good job I salute you’. He would make it simple. Tom Foley would do that. I remember writing a speech for Foley and he said, ‘Give the president credit. Don’t quibble’. I think these guys quibble and say, ‘Well he’s sorta good but I’m not sure, I’m not sure about the troops, shouldn’t they be home?’ After the troops accomplish they’re biggest mission in years, bringing democracy to a country and letting people vote, the first thing the democrats are saying over the weekend is, ‘Bring the troops home, now, today!’ You’ve got to wonder if they are grown ups." Imus: "Well, you wouldn’t be talking about John Kerry on Meet the Press would you?" Chris Matthews: "Yeah I don’t get it. You’re talking about Cabot being off key, he was completely off key." Imus: "Oh man that was disastrous." | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 1994 Registered: 5-2001  |
Ah, it's libs -- a group often referred to as "progressives" -- that can't think outside the box. Fascinating theory. I don't think liberals are generally claiming that they knew Iraq posed no threat. Are they? Rather, they were fairly sure that the administration was full of it, and that they would bungle the job after major military operations were over -- and they were right. Further, libs did not say the elections would not "work," they said that conditions were too dangerous (they were) and that the vast majority of Iraqis had no idea at all who the candidates were and what positions they were voting for (also true). Cons are only able to look good if they fabricate some imaginary group calls "liberals" which has very little resemblance to the real group by that name. You have to remember, Straw, that only YOU live in your world. The rest of us who were actually here know better. Maybe you ought to preface your nonsense with "Well, in Strawberry World..." |
