| Author | Message | ||
     malone Citizen Username: Malone Post Number: 268 Registered: 5-2001 |
For the last time. Guns don't kill people. People kill people. There was plenty of murder going on before the gun was even invented. The murder of choice in some parts of the world does not even involve a gun. | ||
| Sgt. Pepper Citizen Username: Jjkatz Post Number: 689 Registered: 12-2003  |
Michael -- I remember that bit from All in the Family; however I've also seen it suggested for real. Scary, huh. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5523 Registered: 1-2003  |
I don't think the outcome is knowable, whether you propose a gunless society or a society where each person has a gun. We are deep into middle ground here. And other countries' experiences don't necessarily apply here, either. | ||
| joeltfk Citizen Username: Joeltfk Post Number: 113 Registered: 8-2001  |
Well I think it close to truism that we want a society with fewer guns, not more. Right? So, which method seems best to achieving that goal? All this debate appreciated, there's no commonsensical reason people need AK-47s to fight these rampant lunatic shooters that apparently show up all the time in the most inconvenient of places, is there? Oh no, I can think of a reason -- when everyone has a gun, someone will want a bigger gun, then we'll all need bigger guns, and so on and so on... | ||
| Rastro Citizen Username: Rastro Post Number: 710 Registered: 5-2004  |
malone, it's tough (or at least takes more effort and skill) to kill a dozen people in thirty seconds with a knife or blow gun. | ||
| Valentine Michael Smith Citizen Username: Umbert Post Number: 62 Registered: 3-2004  |
actually, in order to get a concealed weapons license and carry a gun with you legally, you do need training. but that almost sounds like a pro-gun argument. I say get rid of 'em all. people are morons, and morons shouldn't have guns. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5524 Registered: 1-2003 |
OK, I'm going to risk sounding pro-gun, which I'm not, but I disagree that the goal is to have a gun-free society. My goal, anyway, is to have a violence free society. I honestly don't know if increasing or decreasing gun quantities works towards that goal. I choose not to own a gun. I'm not comfortable with them. But my comfort shouldn't be an indicator. As I said, I don't think the truth is knowable. It's rather hypothetical. | ||
| Michael Janay Citizen Username: Childprotect Post Number: 1581 Registered: 1-2003  |
Out of curiosity, What do any of you do for self defense purposes? I mean, I'm not paranoid, but I've been mugged (well attempted) twice, seen countless purse snatchings, seen random road rage fights, been threatened by crazy homeless people, I take the subways late at night sometimes, go to the malls, etc. I worry about my wife and kids. I've trained in martial arts and self defense (two very different things), and I carry various legal non-lethal weapons sometimes. What do you all do, if anything? | ||
| joeltfk Citizen Username: Joeltfk Post Number: 114 Registered: 8-2001 |
I mind my own business, learn to turn the other cheek, and don't take huge risks. My wife used to carry pepper spray when she was out at night. | ||
| Bobkat Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7603 Registered: 5-2001 |
Does anyone have statistics on gun crimes in states such as Florida where citizens have the right to carry a concealed handgun upon passing a background check and taking a short safety course? Heck, in Vermont you don't even need a license to carry. | ||
| Chris Prenovost Citizen Username: Chris_prenovost Post Number: 329 Registered: 7-2003 |
Look overseas. The U.S. has the highest rate of handgun deaths in the world. By a long shot. We also have the - by far - highest crime rate in the civilized world. The highest murder rate, ect. More guns = more deaths. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 2051 Registered: 5-2001  |
Okay, now let's hear how guns have nothing to do with what Chris just mentioned. Come on, clever conservatives... | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 5290 Registered: 4-1998  |
hint: blame Hollywood | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5526 Registered: 1-2003 |
Chris, that doesn't seem true. Canada has the same gun ownership rate as the US, and there is far less violence. Every man of a certain age in Switzerland is required to own a gun. They have far less violence. In Bowling for Columbine, Moore points out how similar the US and Canada are and leaves open the question of the difference in violence between the countries. | ||
| Valentine Michael Smith Citizen Username: Umbert Post Number: 64 Registered: 3-2004 |
Janay- I agree with Joe. Just be careful and smart and don't put yourself in those situations. Beyond that, it just seems like a dangerous world and getting hurt seems like a risk one takes by stepping outside. While you can make an argument for having a gun might make you safer, it seems to me that it just adds to making the world a more dangerous place. And besides, I'd rather be mugged than shoot someone. As far as home protection goes, I'd rather have a good dog than a gun. | ||
| notehead Supporter Username: Notehead Post Number: 2061 Registered: 5-2001 |
VMS, I'm with you. But I wonder what Heinlein would say?  | ||
| Valentine Michael Smith Citizen Username: Umbert Post Number: 65 Registered: 3-2004 |
touché notehead, touché! | ||
| Valentine Michael Smith Citizen Username: Umbert Post Number: 66 Registered: 3-2004 |
or maybe heinlein would grok that guns are a wrongness? | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 211 Registered: 8-2001 |
Back to the original question, if I were to legally carry (not holding my breath in this state), it would be a strong-side high-ride holster for my G30. Being CCW, no one would know it was there. Also, AK's are illegal in NJ (as are full auto M16's, MP-5's, Uzi's, etc) unless you have a class III FFL (Federal Firearms License). Putting on my flame-retardant clothes  | ||
| newone Citizen Username: Newone Post Number: 212 Registered: 8-2001 |
Some interesting stories: http://www.sacsconsulting.com/ccw_RealStories.htm |
