| Author | Message | ||
     happyman Citizen Username: Happyman Post Number: 235 Registered: 6-2001 |
Warfrat wrote: "Based upon the day to day contact their immediate families have with the school system, it stands to reason they do have regular contact with parents and teachers, and the conditions that exist within the schools. " Given that theory, South Mountain, South Moutain Annex and South Orange Middle School (and possibly others) would not have had communications/representation for years! | ||
| Southorangemom Citizen Username: Southorangemom Post Number: 164 Registered: 6-2003 |
No one else said Dr. Horoschak is "off-the-wall paranoid" Do you believe that, Kathy? Thank you, J. Crohn, for clarifying my earlier comments re the superintendent and his policy re BOE members visiting schools. What we are discussing here is a question of tone. Yes, the Board has stated a desire to have more open communication with the staff, parents and community members. Yet, if the superintendent takes actions that directly contradict that policy...what will happen? Open communication or reports that have been edited by the superintendent's staff? As stated above, the superintendent is an employee of the BOE. He is charged with the day to day administration of the district. Many BOE members have full time jobs. I can understand they are not available during the school day. Having said all that, I would like to believe that any member of the BOE who wants to talk to students and staff will be able to enter any school in this district and have those conversations. SouthOrangeMom | ||
| J. Crohn Citizen Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2061 Registered: 3-2003 |
"J.C., Wharfrat did not say that he supported the corporate model..." He said this: "My school district, wants to follow a corporate board model, where communications with staff and building administrators are handled centrally, in our case through the administration. I suppose if you don't like the administration you can interpret this negatively. However, nine board members with nine lines of communications is problematic." And according to Wharfie, staff really are able to speak freely to BOE members after all: "The board has two meetings a month. As you know the public and staff is invited to speak. ... Obviously, staff can get in touch." (One wonders how this is supposed to work, given that Dr. Horoschak sits in the midst of his board of directors at every BOE meeting like a CEO.) So I assume, rather reasonably I think, that Wharfie supports the status quo, and indeed has no problem with it at all. Let me say it once more: after having had a conversation with a Board member, a principal in this school district was formally warned that speaking to BOE members is not permitted. A notice was subsequently sent out to all principals (and perhaps other staff as well, I don't know) reminding them of their contract limitations concerning contact with the BOE. Now, Tjohn raises an interesting question as to whether BOE members can approach staff. I assume not, but if I'm wrong, then we all know where the responsibility for staying informed truly lies: with the BOE. | ||
| fringe Citizen Username: Fringe Post Number: 765 Registered: 5-2001 |
If the BOE has adopted the corporate model by limiting all staff communication to the Super H filter and all information gathering to administration-prepared presentations, then do the new board liability provisions recently imposed on Worldcom and Enron board members apply? In short, should the BOE be held accountable for the educational product of the administration's curriculum/practices as evidenced by the comparative objective measures? | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 2913 Registered: 12-2001  |
Let me be more clear. If it is the case that Dr. H specifically sought to restrict unsupervised (by him) dialogue between his administrative team and BOE members, then any BOE member who voted to renew is contract should be de-elected at the earliest possible time. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 75 Registered: 10-2004 |
therefore how is the job that Super H has done been reviewed? he tells the board what he accomplished and the board has no way to confirm the results? Corporate model? Where are the internal auditors checking to see that what is being said is being done matches with what is done? | ||
| J. Crohn Citizen Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2067 Registered: 3-2003 |
Sbenois, I didn't see your post earlier. Evidently it is the chain of command regulation that has been interpreted to mean that staff may not speak to BOE members. People like to keep their jobs. In what kind of position do you think this regulation puts a principal who responds candidly to any BOE member's direct inquiry? | ||
| fringe Citizen Username: Fringe Post Number: 767 Registered: 5-2001 |
18A:12-24.1 Code of Ethics for School Board Members A school board member shall abide by the following Code of Ethics for School Board Members: a. I will uphold and enforce all laws, rules and regulations of the State Board of Education, and court orders pertaining to schools. Desired changes shall be brought about only through legal and ethical procedures. b. I will make decisions in terms of the educational welfare of children and will seek to develop and maintain public schools that meet the individual needs of all children regardless of their ability, race, creed, sex, or social standing. c. I will confine my board action to policy making, planning, and appraisal, and I will help to frame policies and plans only after the board has consulted those who will be affected by them. d. I will carry out my responsibility, not to administer the schools, but, together with my fellow board members, to see that they are well run. e. I will recognize that authority rests with the board of education and will make no personal promises nor take any private action that may compromise the board. f. I will refuse to surrender my independent judgment to special interest or partisan political groups or to use the schools for personal gain or for the gain of friends. g. I will hold confidential all matters pertaining to the schools which, if disclosed, would needlessly injure individuals or the schools. In all other matters, I will provide accurate information and, in concert with my fellow board members, interpret to the staff the aspirations of the community for its school. h. I will vote to appoint the best qualified personnel available after consideration of the recommendation of the chief administrative officer. i. I will support and protect school personnel in proper performance of their duties. j. I will refer all complaints to the chief administrative officer and will act on the complaints at public meetings only after failure of an administrative solution. L.2001,c.178,s.5. | ||
| sbenois Citizen Username: Sbenois Post Number: 13120 Registered: 10-2001  |
I don't think it puts them in ANY position. The Chain of Command Regulation (1100) discusses resolution of a problem. If a BOE member wants to walk into the school and ask a question, I still don't see anything preventing it. Indeed, a reading of the Code of Ethics posted by Fringe shows that it is the responsibility of the BOE members to 'd. I will carry out my responsibility, not to administer the schools, but, together with my fellow board members, to see that they are well run. " | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 2914 Registered: 12-2001 |
Per Sbenois, then, there doesn't seem to be an issue. As long as school administrators are not constrained from speaking freely with BOE members, there is no problem. At the same time, clarifying that the CoC is through the Superintendent only is not a bad idea. | ||
| J. Crohn Citizen Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2069 Registered: 3-2003 |
"I don't think it puts them in ANY position." Really? Your boss has told you point blank that he interprets your contract to mean that you may not speak directly to his boss. You understand you may face retribution (or in the case of untenured staff, dismissal) if you speak your mind. How likely is it that you're going to permit any criticism, particularly of disputed policies, to cross your lips in the presence of a BOE member? "The Chain of Command Regulation (1100) discusses resolution of a problem. If a BOE member wants to walk into the school and ask a question, I still don't see anything preventing it." Something certainly prevents it. Realistically, what is a principal supposed to say if a BOE member asks him or her about something the principal considers a problem? "I'm sorry, I'll have to relay that up the chain of command"? Again, I'm not speaking in the abstract about what might happen. I'm speaking about a non-theoretical shutdown in communication that has already ocurred. And it was explicitly premised on the content of the staff contract. So, yeah, I think it's bad policy. | ||
| Concerned07040 Citizen Username: Concerned07040 Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2004 |
If principals are fearful about talking to BOE members, then how are teachers to feel? Or, what recourse does a staff member have? Last time I checked, the South Orange - Maplewood School District is still part of a democratic United States. I don't see where the superintendent gets off telling BOE members who they can talk to, or vice versa. Concerned07040 | ||
| wharfrat Citizen Username: Wharfrat Post Number: 1559 Registered: 6-2001 |
I think this section of the above document addresses concerns I have regarding the balkanization of ANY BOE that can occur if members are going to establish direct contacts with building administrators and staff. The issue of direct board member access skirts uncomfortably close to issues surrounding micro-management and undermining the authority inherent in a superintendent’s position as chief administrator. Effective organizations function best when lines of communications are clearly delineated. This improves a group’s ability to work together, helps develop cooperation and trust. And while it is clear many posters on MOL and in the community don’t like the current administration, the delineation and adherence to section d of the code of ethics is necessary. If each board member were to establish their own line of communication, the authority of the superintendent’s position would be eroded. And while many people would like to see this happen, now, a bad precedent is set. Are we really willing to have board members who micro-manage all issues within the school district? Where do we draw the line between management and micro-management if we allow administrators opportunities to circumvent any superintendent’s authority by giving them the option to establish sanctioned back channels? Further, this balkanization would definitely preclude this district from ever, IMO, hiring a managerially accomplished superintendent, irregardless of educational philosopy. In other words, no one would take a job running a school district like ours, if they couldn’t be secure in the knowledge that the information they need to run this district is flowing through a channel in which they have access, and ultimately control. | ||
| J. Crohn Citizen Username: Jcrohn Post Number: 2074 Registered: 3-2003 |
"Are we really willing to have board members who micro-manage all issues within the school district?" Merely hearing staff opinions is not micromanaging a school district, Wharfie. In fact, since teachers cannot be prevented from speaking privately to Board members, keeping administrative staff alone bound to a regulation ostensibly designed to prevent some subsequent behaviour on the part of Board members seems nonsensical to me. So I don't think this has a thing to do with the 'no micromanaging' provision of the BOE code. | ||
| cody Citizen Username: Cody Post Number: 655 Registered: 5-2001 |
Balkanization or not, if the main channel of information about the schools to the Board of Ed. members is via the Superintendent's office, then they are getting a filtered view of the situation. If regulations discourage them from going directly to school personnel, then there should be a defined and observed way for them to meet with school personnel and get some input from the people who are in the schools, all day, every day, about what is happening and how policies made by the BOE affect the schools, the staff and the children. The Superintendent's Office should not be the primary conduit of this info. | ||
| Cynicalgirl Citizen Username: Cynicalgirl Post Number: 1107 Registered: 9-2003  |
Mr. wharfat, in a word, EWEWEW!!! Even my various bosses in corporate America aren't as uptight as the definition you put across, which sounds needlessly old school IBM or worse. Moreover, my SVP boss feels free to ask the mgrs who report to me direct questions, solicit input and similar. And I feel equally able to speak my SVP boss's boss and my SVP's peers. Neither gets in the way of accountability, authority or anything like it. They call it, er, transparency and open communication. I don't work for a corporate paradise (oh no, sir, no indeed) but we aren't subject to the situation we describe. Why would we want our school personnel so to be? Makes a body suspicious...what is that secret handshake, anyway? | ||
| SOMaplewood Citizen Username: Somaplewood Post Number: 58 Registered: 4-2004 |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wharfrat quote: 1. You are right, you didn't say which BOE member you support. On another thread you did voice support for birdbrain. Since it looks like his wife is planning to run, it sounds like you might have an agenda. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wharf, why do you assume that birdbrain's wife agrees with him? I guess this gives us a glimpse into the Wharfrat household. | ||
| wharfrat Citizen Username: Wharfrat Post Number: 1572 Registered: 6-2001 |
Well, we will find out if Birdbrain and his wife share similar sentiments, if and when- 1, Birdbrain comes on and shares a glimpse into the conversations he and his wife have about education in our district. 2. Mrs. Birdbrain comes on and says does something similar. 3. Mrs. Birdbrain picks up a packet from the Board office and announces her candidacy, and where she stands on the issues. BTW, What's interesting to note is that neither Birdbrain, his wife, or anyone else close to the Birdbrains has neither confirmed or denied this rumor. This is most interesting! | ||
| birdbrain Citizen Username: Birdbrain Post Number: 71 Registered: 2-2003  |
Ok, I'll do it. Yes, there is a rumor. David "Happy now?" Wren-Hardin Show Them the Door. | ||
| wharfrat Citizen Username: Wharfrat Post Number: 1573 Registered: 6-2001 |
Rumors are often based on fact, no? |
