| Author | Message | ||
     mjc Citizen Username: Mjc Post Number: 327 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thanks, anon. I was just going to say, "Everybody who went through high school without ever seeing a fight, raise your hand." But it does seem sensible for the staff member overseeing the lunch room to have some means of communication, if just one person is going to supervise. Health and safety problems can come up (choking, slip and fall), as well as the occasional shoving match or fight. | ||
| trapper Citizen Username: Trapper Post Number: 126 Registered: 8-2002 |
I've seen "fights" in school. I've never seen a student strike an adult/teacher/security guard/policeman/principal. Not accidentally, and certainly not on purpose. | ||
| fringe Citizen Username: Fringe Post Number: 808 Registered: 5-2001 |
Several CHS teachers have been struck accidentally or on purpose by students in the last few years. The most recent vic was knocked to the floor while she stood between a male student who attacked a female student. | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 372 Registered: 8-2004 |
fringe- How about accidentally on purpose?  I don't remember a student EVER hitting a teacher or authority figure when I was at CHS. And this was when there was more then 2,100 students. And what's with the way the students dress these days?! I think that plays a part in a student's behavior. | ||
| Albatross Citizen Username: Albatross Post Number: 548 Registered: 9-2004  |
How in the world does their dress contribute to their behavior? | ||
| trapper Citizen Username: Trapper Post Number: 127 Registered: 8-2002 |
Albatross... You're kidding? | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 805 Registered: 3-2003 |
Albatross joins Trapper in contributing to irrational analysis! Just kidding Trapper-you are back on track -albi has a ways to go. | ||
| fringe Citizen Username: Fringe Post Number: 812 Registered: 5-2001 |
Last night a number of CHS students and parents spoke at the BOE meeting against what one described as the new zero tolerance policy currently being implemented at CHS. Is this, in fact, the case? Is the arrest that started this thread a part of that policy? If there has been a change in discipline standards, when was it discussed with the BOE? the community? | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1173 Registered: 3-2002 |
Why would anyone be against zero tolerance? Some community members are just plain bizarre. | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 1876 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well....that depends on how "zero tolerance" is handled and what kinds of infractions it covers, lumpyhead. Are you in favor of the kind of zero tolerance that gets a kindergartner suspended for making a "gun" out of his thumb and pointer finger? Or how about the middle schooler who is suspended for bringing drugs to school, i.e. an asthma inhaler or a cough drop? These things really have happened to kids. I can't say whether the supposed new policy is good or bad without having seen the particulars. Can you? Also, I have seen, in another district, selective enforcement of zero tolerance policies. The kids with a rep for bad behavior get booted for the same behavior another kid gets a reprimand for. Kind of like me being really polite and apologetic to the police officer who pulled me over for speeding. He checked my record, found I had none, and gave me a warning. If I had mouthed off or had prior tickets I would probably have gotten a hefty fine, etc. Same behavior (speeding), different consequences based on how I presented myself. Last year I was hit in the face hard enough by an eight year old student to require xrays. Luckily no fracture. The student ACCIDENTALLY hit me while trying to land a punch on another kid who was provoking him unmercifully. I was trying to break up the fight. Do you think I should have pressed charges against the kid who hit me? In zero tolerance world that kid should have been out, immediately. He was genuinely shocked to have hit me and then terrified about what would happen next. I used the opportunity to teach him about unintended consequences of physical altercations. But I did not have him suspended despite having a principal at the time who would have been only too happy to do so. He seemed to hate the special ed kids. I reported the incident, wrote it up, saw the nurse and went off to get xrayed. Accidents really do happen, including to adults. That incident was something of a turning point for that student. He worked harder on managing his anger after that. Had I just done the kneejerk reaction that first came to me, he probably would have just chalked me off as another stupid adult who didn't know nothing and didn't care anyway. Life, and American justice, is a lot more nuanced than some posters seem to think. Cathy | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1174 Registered: 3-2002 |
I wasn't taking the zero tolerance so literally. There are different circumstances in any incident, we all understand that. Deliberate, intentional violence toward another person, student, security guard should not be tolerated. End of story. | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 1877 Registered: 5-2001 |
Please re-read your own post, lumpyhead: Why would anyone be against zero tolerance? Some community members are just plain bizarre. You showed absolutely no ability to comprehend "different circumstances." Only a complete intolerance for anyone who might have any questions about zero tolerance. End of story. Cathy | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5745 Registered: 1-2003  |
Zero tolerance policies call for the end of judgement. They say that one should not decide how to deal with a situation. The intentions are good, but they never end up being an improvement. Policies are never better than the judgement of people. A girl was suspended from school for wearing earrings that depicted guns. I imagine the school's administration claimed that they were not allowed to decide just what a weapon is, therefore, the earrings were weapons. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1176 Registered: 3-2002 |
Zero tolerance for deliberate, intentional, violence towards another person. My own definition, not the schools. End of story Cathy. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5746 Registered: 1-2003 |
Googling "zero tolerance" yield some interesting results, including http://www.ztnightmares.com/ | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 1880 Registered: 5-2001 |
Well, thank you, lumpyhead. That post actually advances the conversation. I generally agree with your definition although it can be quite difficult to absolutely correctly perceive another person's intention, since that is an internal matter. Would you happen to know what the School Board's definition is? Cathy | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7839 Registered: 5-2001 |
When ever there is a line in the sand or a zero tolerance policy with preset penalities here are going to be cases where it is carried to its illogical conclusion. Cathy mentions a few in her post. Hypothetically, let's say that instead of Cathy intercepting the shot in the face, the kid in question managed to hit the other student. From Cathy's post he was being unmercifuly teased so there was some level of provocation. Say the school district policy was a minimum of a one year suspension for hitting someone. Did the kid deserve leniency? But, also Cathy basically let him escape any consequences, other than being afraid of consequences. Was that right also? Traditionally here, and this is from first hand knowledge, in both middle school and high school there has been a fair amount of common sense used in punishments for fighting. I posted about the two freshmen boys five years ago and another incident I know about at MMS, which actually involved Little K, was also handled in a similar manner. The alleged perpetrator got a couple of days off and avoided getting caught for the rest of his SOMSD career. Zero tolerance, however, doesn't have to mean expulsion or similar harsh preset penalities, only that incidents aren't swept under the rug. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1177 Registered: 3-2002 |
No, I don't but I guess a good start would be to get that definition. Then we can debate it. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 93 Registered: 10-2004 |
Zero tolerance policies are never a good idea. The penalty for abnormal behaviors should be adjudicated by the school administration after discourse with the authority figure involved - teacher, counselor, vp, janitor, etc. Then common sense and what is best for the children involved in the incident and the school should be the determining factor. Zero tolerance is never a good idea. Ever. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 322 Registered: 7-2003 |
Wow! And I thought I like to analyze something to death. How old are some of you parents? Or is it just, "do as I say and not as I did"? Part of youth is being ignorant and learning from mistakes, no way around it. Sure there will be boundaries and also some kids who just are extremely hard-headed but some of you talk as though that thing called "growing up" is so cut & dry, black & white... Think about your own childhoods and relate instead of compare. |
