| Author | Message | ||
     sportsnut Citizen Username: Sportsnut Post Number: 1766 Registered: 10-2001 |
Brooklyn then what you are saying is ignorance is an excuse? I'm not sure a zero tolerance policy, in its strictest interpretation, is best but surely something along the lines of throw a punch at a student get suspended. Throw a punch at a teacher or security guard - three days suspension. If it rises to the level of assault then let the police handle it. Some things are cut and dry. Raising your hands is one of those things. You don't do it by accident. You may hit an unintended person but it is still your fault for reacting that way in the first place. Cathy I assume you would have been just as forgiving if that kid's punch had found its mark? I am thinking about my own childhood. Every instance of fighting was met with serious consequences. I don't ever remember my parents arguing to cut me some slack if I got into a fight on the bus and got detention or suspended. I cannot believe this discussion is taking place and that some people would be willing to look the other way at incidents like this. Suspension is not a death sentence. One suspension for fighting will not keep college bound kids from getting into college. More than one then there is a real problem and I have to question the value of permitting that child to attend school with the rest of the population. | ||
| jacman Citizen Username: Jacman Post Number: 278 Registered: 6-2002 |
There is no zero tolerance policy at Columbia High School. Rules and regs concerning the attendance policy are NOT being enforced and there are not enough classes for students to take, so they have multiple free periods. This has translated into kids being very late for the classes they do have or cutting them entirely, and lots and lots of kids in the halls and in the cafeteria at all times. The administration is sending a clear message that having a full schedule of meaningful classes and making sure students get to class on time is not its priority. If YOU were 16 and were hearing this message, how would you behave in school? How much respect would YOU have for this institution? Little secret: kids WANT limits; they want discipline. But limits that make sense and show that adults really care about them. The administration can bark at kids all they want about wearing IDs and exiting out of certain doors, but the kids know they are being treated like second-class citizens. | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 807 Registered: 3-2003 |
Thread Drift Alert! Fringe's point I think, was specifically related to the police being called onto campus. Is this a change from police being discouraged from entering the high school? Is there a change in policy or not? And if so, how was it communicated? Or wasn't it? How can a zero tolerance policy be enforced if it isn't communicated? | ||
| Taylor M Citizen Username: Anotherusername Post Number: 379 Registered: 8-2004 |
Reflect- I just checked the CHS website as wel as the district's and could find nothing about the Zero Tolerance policy. If anyone decides to post it on MOL, make sure you include a disclaimer and a link to your source! Otherwise you might get sued. lol | ||
| johnny Citizen Username: Johnny Post Number: 1204 Registered: 5-2001 |
What's an assult? | ||
| Reflective Citizen Username: Reflective Post Number: 809 Registered: 3-2003 |
Taylor M zero tolerance was apparently a characterization of a policy. My post restates what I believe the original creator of this thread asked. Is there a new policy allowing police on the CHS campus. It is a simple yes or no. This is a key question to each incumbent running. The follow-up to all candidates is "are police needed, or should police be allowed ,or (some variation). Maybe tomorrow a teacher or the teacher's union or an admin type will enlighten us. Of course the secretive nature of the super and the board probably means even those educational associates have no clue. | ||
| david Citizen Username: Schrodes Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2003 |
Im an alum of chs. i graduated this past year. on monday i came back to chs to speak with some teachers and do some work in the film room. while i was there i heard about 2 fights in 2 days in the lunch room and while i was leaving a student/former student was being arrested outside the school for something involving him and his driving skillz as id assume hed like to put it. there were tire marks from the side entrance next to the main door out onto the road. what happened here?! parents, stop playing hack politics on the board and do something. i was at the school last year and it was absurd then but now im just dumb founded at what im seeing and hearing. ive become good friends with several teachers at the school and i havent heard a posative thing about this year. there is something seriously wrong with these kids. its not the school's job to discipline these kids, its their parents. if i ever behaved even remotley like these kids i would have had a belt across my ••• in a heart beat. from my view point it seems that the school is leaning away from being an institue of education and becoming more of an ominous disciplinary entity. this can only complicate any disciplinary problems that are already there because as we all know, us liberal wide eyed hormone raging teens dont like being told what to do. the only natural option they have then is for them to rebel against the disciplinary measures being taken. i ask you to not sit here and nit pick over what i say because of joke politics with the boe or sides that have formed on mol. if questions like these are even being raised then they deserve immediate attention. these are your children. if your childs saftey and education are possibly in perril why in gods name bother argueing over crap like whether ive seen this memo or that or been to this meeting or that. what do you want? a statement of purpose? should I e-mail you? should I put this in your "action item list"? whether anyone wants to admit it or not there is a growing problem at columbia. i personally love the school and hate to see this happen. with these growing concerns over the schools atmosphere wouldnt it make more sense for a investigative commitee to be formed to get to the bottom of this. i guess its up to the tax payers whether its worth hoping the problem rectifies itself while columbia's good name is dragged through the mud and god knows how much money is spent on law suits or to just caugh up the money and have a completly neutral party take a good look at whats going on. and i mean speak to the administrators staff and students. this cant be blammed on only one side. there are many groups involved here and to get columbia back on track all three need to start doing something. everyones a player and that means everyones accountable. funny though how no ones had the balls to step up and be accountable, everyone just passes the buck. god bless this mini american political disaster. and on a personal note these kids act like animals. the problem also goes back home because no one should act the way these kids do. a foot in the ••• is rightly deserved. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3413 Registered: 5-2001  |
david hit the nail on the head - the parents. The problem is that the kids who have the behavior issues are not being dealt with at home (and often those at home are in denial, can't be reached, or use race as an excuse (if black)flame away, jsut remember hte "lunchroom incident" ). So the school has to do something because the community says so. This is an undue burden. But how do you get to the parents? How do you stop a culture of fighting? | ||
| Southorangemom Citizen Username: Southorangemom Post Number: 178 Registered: 6-2003 |
The parents have responsibilities. That goes without saying. The school is "in loco parentis" from 8 AM to 3:06 PM. Therefore, the school has the duty to enforce rules and maintain an educationally sound environment. SouthOrangeMom | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3414 Registered: 5-2001 |
It's a two-way street. All day, 24-7. | ||
| harpo Citizen Username: Harpo Post Number: 2012 Registered: 6-2001 |
If you want to stop a "culture of fighting," advocating physical violence against children, or applauding those who do, is obviously not "educationally sound." Children learn nothing from violence other than how to imitate it and inflict it. I'm taken aback by the number of people who rant on MOL that misbehaving children -- even toddlers -- should be struck, hit or kicked by angry adults, and I'm taken aback by the approving nods they get from other posters. That is child abuse. These people often cite the behavior of their own abusive parents as a learning experience for them. Truth is, parents who treat their kids that way give their kids lifelong psychological problems and are not good parents. Since ffof brought it up, the school also has to address whether race is motivating a few posters here to advocate violence against some children, violence they wouldn't tolerate being used against their own kids by school employees. Teachers also have a responsibility not to get into ego battles and contests of will with kids, and thus help escalate them to the point of violence. I am emphatically NOT saying that teachers and other students are never the victims of violent students who should be removed from the school. I am saying that teachers and administrators in high schools, especially teachers and administrators given supervisorial and disciplinary responsibilities over teenagers, need special training in how to calm down immature, rebellious, troubled or abused kids, since such kids are inevitably going turn up in a public high school as large as CHS. If that training isn't in place, *that* is the lesson that should be learned from these incidents. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2004 |
I think Jacmans post needs to be read and re-read. The loss of electives and allowing students to walk the halls in their 'free time' is a direct cause of loss of discipline. CHS is not as well off today as it was even 3 years ago. The finger should not be pointed at our children who after all are normal teenagers in a suburban environment but at the administration for allowing this environment. Restoration of all electives and the reinstitution of a full day of school is the answer, not police activity. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3415 Registered: 5-2001 |
"I'm taken aback by the number of people who rant on MOL that misbehaving children -- even toddlers -- should be struck, hit or kicked by angry adults" Wow, I never read that in any post. Maybe I missed something. | ||
| trapper Citizen Username: Trapper Post Number: 129 Registered: 8-2002 |
ffof, I believe Jamie Fox, during his acceptance speech for winning the Oscar ®, tearfully thanked his grandmother for repeatedly giving him "whoopings". Jamie Fox is a strong advocate for adults beating young black children. What a great guy. I also read david's remarks about if he were to behave in certain ways, he'd get a belt across his •••. I can't tell if he ever received one, only that there was the threat of it. David said that these kids deserve a foot up their •••. I think that's what harpo's referring to. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1180 Registered: 3-2002 |
What do people who actually have children think? Personally I don't think hitting a child is a good idea but I would love to hear from people with experience raising a child. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5765 Registered: 1-2003  |
My daughters are 16 and 13. I don't believe in hitting them. The likelihood of a punishment is more of a deterrent than the severity of the punishment. If kids are often out of control, it is fair to consider the possibility that they don't get discipline frequently, but I don't think it's because they don't get whupped enough. Kids who are hit eventually believe that they should be hitting when they are older or mightier than someone else. | ||
| C Bataille Citizen Username: Nakaille Post Number: 1881 Registered: 5-2001 |
Speaking as both a parent and a social worker I have to say that Harpo is right that hitting kids only teaches them that violence is okay, that if you're bigger you can do what you want, etc. That said, for those of us raised in families where hitting was common place it is very hard to refrain from doing the same thing at times. Out of frustration or anger. But it is really not a way to teach a kid something useful. There are lots of other ways to teach kids. For example, when my kid argues with me about turning off the television, she loses the privilege for the next day. If she gets so out of control that she tries to turn it back on, she loses the privilege for an entire week. I've only had to do that once. So she has learned that, no matter how much she wants to watch television or get her way, it will not supercede family life and relationships. And if her priorities are television over family, she will lose the opportunity to watch television, because that is not part of our family values. Discipline is about TEACHING, not punishing. Taking the opportunities that come up every day in life to talk with and teach kids about real life. Rather than just smacking them down when they annoy us. Parenting requires pro-activity rather than reactivity. I say this with a straight face as something that I strive for rather than something that I have achieved. BTW there were consequences for the child who accidentally hit me. But I chose not to pursue the zero tolerance/suspension route as I felt intentionality was an important consideration. I am not interested in being a punching bag. But I am interested in having children learn something useful from their interactions with me. I was able to accomplish more with him this way than if I'd just had him suspended (which would definitely have been the easy thing to do.) Cathy | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 323 Registered: 7-2003 |
jacman, "kids WANT limits"? Wow, I did inhale when I was a kid but obviously not stuff that good. Kids NEED limits, they don't want them. Sportsnut, I'm not saying ignorance is an excuse. I'm saying something similiar to what David is saying. Ok, I'll make the suggestion: Parent's Day 1. Parents come up to the school on a school day which we agree upon and visit the school in intervals (not too many, most kids will straighten up). Come to our own conclusion of what's going on and collectively do something about it. 2. Parents develop a "security team" and assist in supervision of our children with the agreement of the school. If each child's parent agrees and we assign schedules no one should have to do more than three per year. Anyone interested? BTW, it is mainly the parents who approve of or tolerate bad behavior. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 324 Registered: 7-2003 |
Kids WANT love. Limits and discipline make them feel like you care if given lovingly. | ||
| Tom Reingold Supporter Username: Noglider Post Number: 5768 Registered: 1-2003 |
We might merely have a problem of nomenclature. Kids do feel more secure when they have clear limits. They show it, though sometimes in subtle ways. They may not be conscious of their "want" for limits and discipline, but they do crave them. |
