| Author | Message | ||
     Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 91 Registered: 10-2004 |
Is homework really that important? If you child can read - let him read what he wants. Let him get away with not doing his homework all the time. Does he have friends? Outside interests? Does he exercise regularly - play sports? Maybe theres more to it then just homework... | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7831 Registered: 5-2001 |
Rudbekia - Since you mention anxiety and suicide I would strongly suggest that you have him see a child psychologist. I know our daughter at roughly your sons age had a lot of anxiety issues, mostly about not always being the smartest kid in class. Counseling helped her tremendously. I think the issues may go way behond not liking to do homework. | ||
| Rudbekia Citizen Username: Rudbekia Post Number: 90 Registered: 3-2004 |
SAC-- since my son pretty much won't take tests to begin with, needing to score well on them would keep him out right there ;). But I've also heard that a child needs also to be cooperative. Maybe I'm wrong. Either way, we're out. I think it was James Memoli who told me this once when I called him to ask him what route to take a few years back. | ||
| algebra2 Supporter Username: Algebra2 Post Number: 3030 Registered: 5-2001  |
Why do say I was being insensitive? All I said was I have a child who throws a FIT when it comes to homework and going to school. No, he's never mentioned killing himself. You didn't state that he's talked about that in your previous post. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7832 Registered: 5-2001 |
Sorry if my post sounded blunt. | ||
| lumpyhead Citizen Username: Lumpyhead Post Number: 1170 Registered: 3-2002 |
Would a different school help him? Maybe a Our Lady of Sorrows or St. Joseph's or Immaculate Heart? I know these are Catholic but I hear that for private schools they are reasonably priced. I don't think the public schools have the resources to deal with any special cases but maybe the private ones will. Good luck to you and your child. My heart goes out to you. | ||
| sac Supporter Username: Sac Post Number: 1893 Registered: 5-2001 |
Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't catch that part when I was trying to be reassuring about the subjectivity. I know that if a child is in the class and not cooperative, that would be a problem, but I think many kids are more likely to be cooperative once in that class where they are in a small group of kids and more challenged. I wasn't aware that there was any screening of this aspect in advance, but Jim Memoli would certainly know as he is in charge of the program. I would also agree with Bobk ... it does sound like some counseling might be extremely helpful in your situation. At any rate, having dealt with other kinds of emotional and school-related difficulties with both of my offspring at various times, I do feel for what you are going through and I wish you the best of luck in dealing with it. | ||
| Rudbekia Citizen Username: Rudbekia Post Number: 91 Registered: 3-2004 |
Bob K. Thanks so much for your response. He actually is seeing a child psychologist, who also can't figure out what the heck is up yet. When he's not in school, all his symptoms mysteriously (ok, obviously not so mysteriously) vanish. He won't talk about any of his problems with anybody but me, by the way, so it's hard to say what the therapy is really doing for him or how counselling may ultimately help him if it will at all. Can you tell me more about how it worked for your daughter? Hoops: Yes, he's got many friends, who all excel at school, btw, and who are all very nice boys. He is well-liked. He also makes new friends very easily and seeks out new friends. He has outside interests and exercises regularly. When he's off from school for even three days, he's a completely different kid. I don't believe that homework is at all important and in this case is doing only one thing for him: causing him more anxiety. His teacher and the asst. principal however believe that we should try to keep him on track as much as possible with it to instill a good work ethic about it and work on "personal responsibility." But really it's not just homework, he won't do his work in school either--just stares off into space from what I'm being told, and is, if not completely, then is almost entirely, disengaged from the learning process. I am currently asking his teacher if perhaps it's ok if he can just skip certain large homework projects. I just don't know what's acceptable, what sets a bad precedent, etc. The thing is, if he knows he doesn't have to do his homework once, he'll never forget it. | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3409 Registered: 5-2001  |
Rud- Look for a PL from me. I didn't want to post all the info here. | ||
| Hoops Citizen Username: Hoops Post Number: 92 Registered: 10-2004 |
Did you consider switching teachers? Maybe he does not get along with his teacher well and would rather not do what (s)he asks. Another teacher may be what he needs for a fresh start. | ||
| Rudbekia Citizen Username: Rudbekia Post Number: 92 Registered: 3-2004 |
Hoops: thanks for that thought but he really likes his teacher and so do I. She's been incredibly supportive and is doing her absolute best to provide him with what he needs, but she has 19 other kids to teach, so there's only so much a teacher can do. She has been very attentive, making sure that he gets accommodations, etc. and yet she has to put so much effort into him that I feel really bad, like he's taking away from the other kids. If he had an aide, I feel like things might be better all around, but to get an aide, the child study team has to first agree to evaluate your child, which seems unlikely since he is still not behind grade level and produces great work sometimes that makes it look like there's absolutely nothing wrong academically, which indeed there may not be. And then they have to find something wrong with your child in the evaluation. | ||
| Monkey Girl Citizen Username: Monkeygirl Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 |
By law, the district has to do everything possible to meet your child's individual needs. I believe they will be open to doing so, if you can get an accurate evaluation. You need to make sure that happens soon, with or without their official authorization. You may wish to get in touch with an outside child education advocate -- not because you are fighting the system, but because they are experts in knowing what specific tests to ask for, and in telling you what kinds of accomodations you can ask for in an IEP (individual education plan). My son went through a phase of crying and locking himself in the bathroom to avoid going to school. It broke my heart to force him to go into what he considered a torturous situation. It felt like I was betraying him. Fortunately, it got better, and I hope it will for your son as well. Your son may be very gifted in some aspects, and have learning difficulties in others that make it hard for him to be in school. He may be masking some nonspecific learning disability. I do feel for you, but it sounds as if he's doing so well in other aspects of his life (socially) -- that I'll bet he's going to end up just fine when you get to the bottom of this. Persevere! | ||
| Rudbekia Citizen Username: Rudbekia Post Number: 93 Registered: 3-2004 |
Monkeygirl, thank you so much for your post. Could you PL me with any specifics on who you used for testing, advocacy, etc. Are you saying that if I have him tested independently that the district has to address whatever the tests find? What do you think made your son start feeling better. Was it that his disability was addressed and services provided that alleviated the stress? Sorry to ask so many questions but the way you described how you felt is exactly how I feel and it was so nice of you to send me some positive words of hope. Thank you. | ||
| 2shoes Citizen Username: 2shoes Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2001 |
You could check out http://schwablearning.org/ .... articles on emotions and learning, dealing with the school system, etc. The site is geared toward learning disabilities/differences and I have found helpful information, even though on the surface [by name] it did not match my child's issues. I wish you well. | ||
| Rudbekia Citizen Username: Rudbekia Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2004 |
Thanks, Lumpyhead, for your wishes. I didn't see your post until now. I don't know much about private schools, don't think I can afford one, and I don't know much about Catholic schools. I think he would probably do best at some sort of school for his type of person, whether that means a learning disabled or different thinker type of person, I don't know. Thanks, 2 shoes, for the suggestion. I'll check it out. | ||
| cody Citizen Username: Cody Post Number: 681 Registered: 5-2001 |
This might sound very simplistic, but have you asked him what it is that he doesn't like about school? Or maybe ask him if he could design a school that would be wonderful for him, what would it be like? I'm thinking that there are obviously issues at play that are gnawing at him, but you're working in the dark. I had originally thought he might not have friends at school, but that's not the case. Third grade is a difficult grade because it is when the responsibility for learning starts to be given more to the child and when the child is asked to make many more connections between the material being presented and what they have already learned and are learning concurrently. It can be very anxiety-producing in sensitive kids. Is there one subject or interest that your child has that could be the keystone for his work? For example, if he liked ancient Egypt, that could be worked into his math assignments or reading. You might have some success in asking his teacher to use his favorite interest as a motivator for the assignment/homework. Where exactly are his creative strengths? Art? Formulating new ideas? Seeing things in a new way? A lot of children test very highly on standardized tests, but aren't very creative. School works very well for them, as they are in sync with the system. A child who is very creative, but whose creativity is challenging to the system is much more likely to have some difficulty, because the system isn't set up to best deal with a child like that. I'd say read some Mel Levine works (he deals with the various types of minds that our kids have and how to identify and challenge the strengths of a child while simultaneously scaffolding his or her weaker areas. He writes a lot about "demystification" and helping a child understand how they think, why some things are easy for them and why some things are difficult. He is a big proponent of first asking a child what works for them, what doesn't and what would help them do better. His approach works with all kinds of children, not just those with learning problems. I believe his website is something like allkindsofminds.com, but you could find out if you did a web search on "Mel Levine". He's presented in our district a few times and has been very enlightening to listen to. Good luck in finding some ways to help your son - no one should be asked to do something they hate day in and day out for 15 or more years. | ||
| silkcity Citizen Username: Silkcity Post Number: 297 Registered: 5-2001 |
Outside testing may be valuable to you, but schools do not have to and, in fact, do not use it as the basis for anything at all. And keep in mind what the folks at school are really thinking: if you pay for tests, chances are they'll give you a result. (You get what you pay for, in other words.) Even if your child tests gifted, I don't know what the district will offer. I've never known a district with less for the gifted child. Your child's social success, esp the part about seeking out and making new friends is actually atypical, for what it's worth, of the profoundly gifted. (Do you want a profoundly gifted child? That's a hard question for another thread...) I don't have any answers and my own kid looks likely to slide under the radar for the rest of her education -- does okay, but no interest, limited motivation. I'm beefing up the outside activs (limited until now) and providing new opportunities. It's the best I can do! | ||
| Cathy Supporter Username: Clkelley Post Number: 751 Registered: 6-2002 |
silkcity, out of curiosity - what constitutes "profoundly gifted"? I'm happy to take this to another thread as I don't want to clutter up rudbekia's concerns with what I suspect are side issues to her. | ||
| mjc Citizen Username: Mjc Post Number: 332 Registered: 10-2004 |
Bek, you have all my sympathy. It's so painful to watch them go through hard times, especially if you the mom went through school fairly easily. My son too had a very hard time dealing with school in 3rd grade, though without the "wish I were dead" stuff that has very rightly sent you to a psychologist. He hated going to school, hated being in school, wouldn't sit properly in his seat (which drove his teacher nuts), and finally wound up doing his homework in about a 2" x 2" square that no one could possibly read, but it was "done." On the encouraging side, he's a CHS senior now, and has done very well. BUT he has chafed about school all the way through, more some years, less others (3rd grade may have been the worst). When we asked what could we do to make school better, what would be his ideal school, he just said no matter how it was "fixed" it would still take too much of his time, leaving not enough for his real interests (friends, drawing, building, thinking, math, music, sports). Here are some random thoughts: 1. The situation can get somewhat better with proper placements, but I don't know what you could do before middle school, other than encourage people to let him try the gifted program. The gifted program was a respite; teachers who "get" your particular kid are good (but you seem to have that already). If there's ANYTHING he connects with at school, can she build on that so that he at least has one thing to look forward to each day? 2. It's wonderful that your guy has good friends. This and you will hopefully pull him through to better times. In our case, the situation became much less acute with time, though I can't say he was really happy about school, except for a few classes here and there that actually appealed to his interests. 3. Have you carefully checked his vision and hearing for conditions that might be aggravated in the classroom? Is the teacher sure he's not being picked on in some way? Classroom allergies? 4. For my kid, if I had more confidence and creativity, possibly the best thing would have been home schooling, with plenty of help from the home school community. I believe he could easily have gotten through most course work in maybe 2 or 3 hours a day, leaving plenty of time for whatever he loves. It's something you could ponder. 5. If you have the time and $, I wouldn't dismiss the Johns Hopkins programs. They sound wonderful, though we didn't ever participate. Also, Montclair State has a Saturday program for "gifted" kids that some really enjoy (though it may not start till middle school). And you never know, you may wake up one morning and find it's a lot better than it was, just because he's turned a developmental corner. Sorry for the long long post. I hope there was something in it that might be supportive or even helpful.  to the mom and the guy - MC | ||
| Lydia Supporter Username: Lydial Post Number: 975 Registered: 5-2001 |
My youngest daughter went from being happy, curious and excited to go to nursery school to anxious, bored and non-social when I switched schools. I chose a good private school that many of my friends loved and raved about, but it just wasn't the right fit for her. I switched her back to her old school and she thrived again. We had a similar experience with our public school and my older daughter. We're districted for a very good school, and most of my neighbors have had great school experiences there, but my daughter was bored and moody in Kindergarten. For 1st grade I sent her to Seth Boyden (we're not districted for SB) and that was the right fit for her - she was motivated again, excited to go to school, etc. Follow your gut - it sounds like something is wrong. If you haven't done so already - make sure your son's hearing, vision, etc. is OK. Oh and good luck - there's nothing more painful for a mother than a child in crisis. Ffof and Algebra are both good friends of mine and wonderful mothers, they weren't trying to be unkind I'm sure. I think this is such an emotional and raw situation that MOL might not be the best place to sort it out. |
