| Author | Message | ||
     ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3472 Registered: 5-2001  |
That's your perogative. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 502 Registered: 9-2004 |
Right… and just reading all the statements you've made on both threads says enough. Sad. | ||
| amandacat Citizen Username: Amandacat Post Number: 832 Registered: 8-2001  |
Whatever, Bklyn. No wonder I usually avoid posting in the education section . . . | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3474 Registered: 5-2001 |
Too bad. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7950 Registered: 5-2001 |
Amandacat, the student who used "you people" probably didn't mean it as an insult or to mindlessly group together a group of people. However, it is a term that tends to deindividualize people and lump them together in some jello like mass. In a less emotionally charged situation it probably would have been passed over. I am afraid that yesterday has opened up a lot of wounds. FFOF and Phenix are usually pretty rationale and both of them have gone off the deep end on this subject. "Girls" if you can't play nice you will have to go to your rooms.  | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 504 Registered: 9-2004 |
 Bobk, When my son first told me what this student said, my first reaction was, "oh know he didn't'". But then I told my son, I think this kid probably learned a lesson from his usage of words. Again, the poor kid did make some valid points. It was a highly charged assembly. | ||
| Tully Mars Citizen Username: Tullymars Post Number: 3 Registered: 2-2005 |
I am reading this with interest. When I went to Columbia, I have to say that there may have been a divide, but I didn't notice it. Ignornace or simple case of not seeing it as a teen? Perhaps. My question is this: everyone is really railing on eachother about the language used at the forum, but aside from Mr. Frazier, was anyone else there? If so, great; if not, remember that there are at least 3 sides to every story: the two participants and then somewhere lost in the middle is the truth. Just some food for thought. | ||
| Dave Moderator Username: Dave Post Number: 5649 Registered: 4-1997  |
Just got an e-mail from someone who uses this as his sig and thought about this topic: "Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." -MLK | ||
| LibraryLady(ncjanow) Supporter Username: Librarylady Post Number: 2318 Registered: 5-2001  |
The term "you people" was not used to refer to African-American students but rather, those students in Level 2 who do no work in or out of classyet complain bitterly about not "moving up" in levels. (Though I was not there, this was relayed to be by a student who was in attendance at the assembly) Not the best choice of words, but not a capital crime either. | ||
| John Davenport Citizen Username: Jjd Post Number: 469 Registered: 2-2003 |
I have three points to make. (1) First, I'd like to praise the MLK club for recommending a serious dress code: "asking all students in support of this initiative to honor the dress code, which is similar to that of what you would wear on a job interview." In my judgment, this would do a lot to improve the atmosphere of academic rigor and seriousness at the high school. Over time, it might help change attitudes towards study and the value of academic achievement that would help more students of all races move into higher-level classes. (2) Progressive candidates for the school board will support this crucial initiative, I think. But the current incumbents up for re-election on the Board will certainly not. Moreover, they will vote to reappoint Peter Horoschak, and will support him when he gives tenure to Ms. Pollack. Everyone who sympathizes with what the MLK society is trying to achieve (which includes me), should think seriously about this before they assume that a vote for Jasey and Miller is a vote for the MLK goals of improving academic achievement for minority students. That improvement begins with a more rigorous curriculum in elementary schools, which Jasey and Miller have rejected. If you agree with the MLK goals, you should NOT vote to re-elect the incumbents. (3) The MLK society should make clearer what kind of 'de-leveling' it has in mind. When 6th grade language arts was de-leveled, despite my urging, the Board of Education did not require that the new class (combining former levels 3 & 4) all be held to the same rigorous standards of the former level 4 class. Mila Jasey did not support an amendment making this requirement, proposed by Greg Betheil. This is what I call FIXED RIGOR de-levelling: all students are expected to perform up to the prior highest level criteria, and are graded accordingly. But without this principle, de-levelling can simply mean watering down the academic rigor of the class for everyone: everyone get the level 3 curriculum, with level-3 grading measures etc. Then de-leveling entirely fails to achieve its purpose. Student previously stuck in level 3 without adequate opportunity to move up are STILL stuck. Student previously challenged in level 4 are no longer challenged -- and thus become bored, alienated, likely to act out -- or their parents simply remove them to private schools. Then the result is a less racially diverse school with more students getting essentially level 3 education with a nicer label. Thus I call on the Martin Luther King Association publically to declare support for FIXED-RIGOR de-levelling only. This is absolutely crucial for debate on this issue to advance. The MLK club should also demand a flexible elementary reading curriculum that is skills-focused an in accordance with the NJ State Core Curriculum Content standards requiring direct instruction in soudning out words. This should help more students avoid the need for remedial assistance in Project Ahead. Remember: reading problems in early grades are the harbinger of being behind in academic performance throughout one's school career! | ||
| ffof Citizen Username: Ffof Post Number: 3479 Registered: 5-2001 |
John- I would vote for you for BOE in a minute! | ||
| Montagnard Citizen Username: Montagnard Post Number: 1472 Registered: 6-2003  |
It would be instructive to the "student leaders" to just let the walkout take place. School would take place more or less as usual and the kids would get a vaulable lesson in realism. | ||
| anon Citizen Username: Anon Post Number: 1706 Registered: 6-2002 |
About thirty years ago I learned that Black people deeply resent the use of the term "you people". I didn't know that before then and I was older than a high school student. So this kid got a lesson. That's what school is for. | ||
| Nathan Winkler Citizen Username: Nathanwinkler Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 |
I am the student who raised the importance of hard work and showing up on time at the MLKA assembly. I did not and would never use the phrase "you people". The meeting was video taped and as soon as the TV studio makes the tape available I will be able to prove this. I did use the word "you" implying that I am separate from the students I was talking to, specifically the leadership of the MLKA who sponsored the assembly. This is because I would never consider myself part of a group of students who would use the phrase: "These are our demands" and threaten the school if they are not met. I would never consider myself part of a group that pulls the race card and paints with such a large brush. Are there a lot of problems at CHS? Of course. Does that mean that the "school” is "racist"? Certainly not. By saying the school is racist the MLKA leadership implied that all of the teachers I've had, black and white, which have shared tremendous knowledge with me are racist. By saying the school is racist the MLKA leadership implied that its alumni and students were racist. Accusing Columbia High School of racism is a disgusting overstatement that clouds many real issues. That is why I used the word "you" because listening to the MLKA leadership during that assembly left me burning with anger at the damage they were inflicting on the school I love. --Nathan Winkler CHS Class of 2005 | ||
| jacman Citizen Username: Jacman Post Number: 279 Registered: 6-2002 |
Of course there are students who are disengaged from the educational process and who behave badly at CHS. Unfortunately, their number is growing rapidly. But most students, and importantly most teachers also, share Nathan's love for CHS. The problem is that for the last several years, many students and teachers have felt that they have not been listened to when they have spoken up about things that they felt needed to change. They were labeled "whiners" and "complainers" at best and more often as "troublemakers." After years and years of speaking into deaf ears and not being acknowledged, tensions escalated and that is what is happening now. Members of the Board: before you make any of the important decisions that are before you regarding CHS, please, please talk to teachers, talk to students and (I believe you will be quite surprised if you also) talk frankly with administrators on Mrs. Pollack's "leadership team" at CHS. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 509 Registered: 9-2004 |
But most students, and importantly most teachers also, share Nathan's love for CHS. The problem is that for the last several years, many students and teachers have felt that they have not been listened to when they have spoken up about things that they felt needed to change. They were labeled "whiners" and "complainers" at best and more often as "troublemakers." After years and years of speaking into deaf ears and not being acknowledged, tensions escalated and that is what is happening now. jacman, Very well said. I never thought of Columbia as being a racist school. If that was the case, I would not send my kids to the school. Columbia has alot to offer, I've said this to other parents who've ask before their kids entered Columbia. But there are issues that should've been addressed years ago and unfortunately it's led t this. This past weekend, I talked with one teacher who also expressed that there seems to be a "lack of communication" with Mrs. Pollack whic has become frustrating to some of the teachers and students. The best thing that did happen in this assembly… the students, teachers, Mrs. Pollack, the administrators, and the board (some are expressing their viewpoints on various threads) are now beginning acknowledge that there is still work to do to at Columbia. More communication and sensitivity to students (and teachers) needs should be addressed and not ignored. Perhaps a commitee involving students, teachers, and adminstrators should be implemented. This commitee could be the "mediator" when such issues/tensions arise. Just a thought. | ||
| Phenixrising Citizen Username: Phenixrising Post Number: 510 Registered: 9-2004 |
Nathan, Kudos to you for "explaining" your side of what actually was said. My son did say that you made some very VALID points at the assembly. I guess perhaps you were misunderstood by the students who heard the "you" part especially the AA students. Again, I do not view Columbia as racist, but talking with some students and info from "some" teachers, the lack of communication and sensitivity to MLK (in their view) are being ignored. | ||
| Bob K Supporter Username: Bobk Post Number: 7957 Registered: 5-2001 |
I can't help but wonder how much of this is from the MLK Club and how much is from a small group of teachers who encouraged their protest to further their own goals. I think there are a lot of valid issues here to be quite honest, including fairness in determining levels, support for non-college bound students and fair implementation of the rules and regulations at the school. However, I still wonder how much this is involved with the lawsuit and Principal Pollack's management style and the upcoming tenure vote. | ||
| bklyntonj Citizen Username: Bklyntonj Post Number: 335 Registered: 7-2003 |
I can't help but wonder why the "race issue" continues to be avoided over and over and over again. Why is that such a hard issue to face? Oh yeah, that's right. "Bklyntonj always tries to bait people into the race card debate". Excuse me for being able to acknowledge the issue instead of acting like its not in exeistence. | ||
| tjohn Citizen Username: Tjohn Post Number: 2971 Registered: 12-2001  |
Race continues to be an issue, in part, because it is an issue subject to much abuse. The minute charges of racism are tossed about, my interest in what the aggrieved party has to say drops off rather quickly. It is perfectly plausible that the BOE or school board is making policy decisions regarding, say, leveling, based on assumptions and approaches that ought to be reexamined. This is not racism. It is bias or prejudice, but it is not racism. Racism is a belief that some races are superior to others. Prejudice is merely a set of assumptions, the factual basis for which has not been examined or need to be reexamined. For example, I might believe that blondes are ditzy. That is a prejudice if my "factual" basis for this belief is Hollywood and jokes. OTOH, if I reached this conclusion after years of research based on sound scientific methods, then this belief whould be neither racist nor a prejudice. So, unless you want to alienate large numbers of people who really do want to be fair and to do the right thing, let's leave the word "racism" out of this. |
